[lbo-talk] Let's Lock Up 14% of All Men Who Have Ever Married! (wasFeminism and the False Memory Syndrome)

Jesse Lemisch utopia1 at attglobal.net
Mon Oct 23 22:20:53 PDT 2006


I believe what Yoshie is doing is what's called "trolling." The essence of her latest argument seems to be that we shouldn't punish crime, including rape, because we don't have large enough prisons. This is a fairly sordid and desperate style of argument.

Jesse Lemisch

----- Original Message ----- From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" <critical.montages at gmail.com> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: [lbo-talk] Let's Lock Up 14% of All Men Who Have Ever Married! (wasFeminism and the False Memory Syndrome)


> On 10/23/06, Jesse Lemisch <utopia1 at attglobal.net> wrote:
> > Again, it's Yoshie one-note, not condescending to reply to the excellent
> > relevant points raised by Jenny Brown, in particular her point about the
> > avoidance in court of marital rape and of sexual molestation within the
> > family. Hers have been the most clarifying posts of this thread, and its
> > simply ludicrous to describe as "voices of reason" those whose bias has
led
> > them repeatedly to avoid such things.
>
> Wellesley Centers for Women says this about marital rape: "Diana
> Russell (a prominent rape researcher) interviewed over 900 randomly
> selected women and found that, while 3% had experienced completed rape
> by a stranger, 8% had experienced completed rape by a husband. Wife
> rape was the most common type of completed rape reported. These
> numbers are calculated on all women, including those who haven't ever
> been married. If you only count women who have been married, 14% - or
> one in every seven married women - reported either a completed or
> attempted rape by a husband/ex-husband" (2001,
> <http://www.wellesley.edu/WCW/projects/mrape.html). I don't know if
> studies cited above are sound (the curious should visit the WCW Web
> site, get citations, and look into them), but let's assume they are,
> for the sake of argument.
>
> If we are to pursue justice for all marital rape victims rigorously,
> we might have to identify and lock up all marital rapists, roughly one
> in seven men who have ever married (excluding for the moment the fact
> that some men are probably raping more than one wife in the course of
> serial marriages, to facilitate our back-of-a-napkin calculation,
> since we do not have stats on serial marital rapists).
>
> BTW, most alleged offenders of any kind of crime (estimates based on
> victim surveys) are never caught and convicted:
>
> <blockquote>According to latest statistics (derived from figures 25-30
> covering 1994 in the United States, 1995 in England), the likelihood
> of conviction was about --
>
> * 50% for murder in both countries
> * 20% for rape in the United States and 10% in England
> * 2% for robbery in the United States and less than 1% in England
> * 2% for assault in the United States and 1% in England
> * 1% for burglary in the United States and less than 1% in England
> * 2% for motor vehicle theft in the United States and 1% in England.
>
> However, these estimates must be interpreted cautiously. For example,
> the rape conviction likelihood is inflated because it is based on the
> number of convictions divided not by the total number of rapes but by
> just the number recorded by police. ("Convictions per 1,000
> Offenders," Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and
> Wales, 1981-96,
> <http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/cpo.htm>)</blockquote>
>
> Large as American prisons are, America catching and convicting more
> alleged offenders -- including rapists -- than England*, America still
> has a long way to go to satisfy all supporters -- including feminist
> supporters -- of law and order.
>
> <blockquote>According to latest conviction figures (1994 in the United
> States, 1995 in England) --
>
> * with the exception of murder, a person committing a crime in the
> United States is more likely to be caught and convicted than one
> committing crime in England (including Wales).
>
> The number of persons convicted in 1994 of --
>
> * murder for every 1,000 alleged murderers was 487 in the United
> States and 555 in England, indicating that a murderer's risk of
> conviction is slightly greater in England than in the United States
> (figure 25)
>
> * rape for every 1,000 alleged rapists was 188 in the United States
> and 100 in England, indicating that a rapist's risk of conviction in
> the United States is nearly double that in England (figure 26)
>
> * robbery for every 1,000 alleged robbers was 22 in the United States
> and 6 in England, indicating that a robber's risk of conviction in the
> United States is nearly four times that in England (figure 27)
>
> * assault for every 1,000 alleged assaulters was 25 in the United
> States and 14 in England, indicating that an assaulter's risk of
> conviction in the United States is nearly double that in England
> (figure 28)
>
> * burglary for every 1,000 alleged burglars was 14 in the United
> States and 6 in England, indicating that a burglar's risk of
> conviction in the United States is more than double that in England
> (figure 29)
>
> * motor vehicle theft for every 1,000 alleged vehicle thieves was 18
> in the United States and 12 in England, indicating that a vehicle
> thief's risk of conviction is 50% greater in the United States than in
> England (figure 30). ("Convictions per 1,000 Offenders," Crime and
> Justice in the United States and in England and Wales, 1981-96,
> <http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/cpo.htm>)</blockquote>
>
> If we are to lock up all offenders to all victims and their advocates'
> satisfaction, we'll need even more prisons than we have now -- though
> we already have the world's biggest prison system, with about 2.1
> million people incarcerated at any time (Matthew Davis, "The World's
> Biggest Prison System," 7 April 2006,
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4858580.stm>) -- and no doubt
> we'll go bankrupt while we are making efforts to do so, but let
> justice be done, though the world perish.
>
>
> * But most agree that America is less safe -- for women as well as men
> -- than England, despite America's higher conviction rates.
> --
> Yoshie
> <http://montages.blogspot.com/>
> <http://mrzine.org>
> <http://monthlyreview.org/>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk



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