[lbo-talk] Israeli Ðbermenschen

Bill Bartlett billbartlett at dodo.com.au
Fri Sep 1 21:52:25 PDT 2006


At 7:09 PM -0700 1/9/06, Angelus Novus wrote:


>Defend? Israel is the most heavily armed state in the
>region, and a modern capitalist nation-state with some
>international influence. The state of Israel is
>certainly not dependent upon marginal communist e-mail
>posters to provide defense.

Don't flatter yourself. You are a nihilist, not a communist.


>Yes, nation-states kill people and

We aren't talking about killing a few people, we're talking about scorched earth strategy. We're talking about demands for the civilian population to evacuate their homes and farms, then bombing the civilian infrastructure to rubble, spreading thousands of mines across cities and farms and for good measure imposing a blockade on the region. All designed to frustrate any attempt for the cilian population to return to a normal life when the war is over.

We are, in other words, talking about a serious and thoroughly vile strategy of attempted sterilisation of southern Lebanon. They call that genocide where I come from. Your repeated attempts to pretend that all nations states do this all the time, in other words to whitewash the Israeli war crimes, is pathetic and vile. You disgust me.


>engage in
>exclusionary practices against those who do not belong
>to the national collective. I am sorry if this
>conflicts with any illusions you might have had to the
>contrary. The "state" is a rather sordid concept.
>The "nation" no less so.

Oh so that's it? This is just ideological blather? As an anti-statist you are trying to say that this is normal state behaviour. That makes you a fool as well, you can't tell the difference between war crimes and the normal way a state behaves because of ideological blinkers?


> > Funny you should mention Milosevic, who was
> > prosecuted for crimes
>> against humanity for engaging in the sort of
>> atrocities which you
>> claim are standard practice.
>
>Ah, you are a member of the crowd that likes to
>demonize Milosevic. I leave that sort of thing to
>cruise-missile liberals like Christopher Hitchens or
>Joschka Fischer.

Well aren't you the holier than though, lefter than thou, hero of the working class. For your information mate I'm not a member of any "crowd". I wasn't "demonizing" Milosevic, just observing that the war strategy he was accused of was obviously considered criminal by a majority of the governments of the world. I never followed it closely enough to know if he was guilty (though prima facie *someone* was.)


> That kind of politics is founded
>upon the deception that there exists any kind of
>"international law" which is not subsumed to the
>interests of powerful nation-states.

Of course, of course, "international law" would be anathema to you wouldn't it. It would conflict with your ideological cant. So of course you just pretend it doesn't exist. Brilliant save! Very original.


> >It seems international
>> standards of
>> behaviour in war may be somewhat higher than you
>> assert.
>
>If that were the case, I doubt if there would be many
>heads of state on the planet who wouldn't be in
>prison.

Well I guess by that logic, domestic national laws can't exist either. After all, there's lots of bad guys that aren't in prison.


> > I understand the government system in Israel already
>> has mass support
>> among the privileged ethnic caste.
>
>Most states usually have the tacit or active support
>of their populations for whatever nasty things they
>pursue. Nothing new here.

You arsehole! So genocide is no different to welfare reform in your book? Scum!


> >The privileged
>> ethnic caste also
>> strongly supports the use of torture and murder
>> against dissidents
>> from the second and third class citizens of Israel.
>
>What are "second and third class" citizens of Israel?
>
>>I guess Hitler had a need
>> to demolish
>> parliamentary democracy, as yet there is no such
>> need in Israel.
>
>Hence, no fascism. Thank you for making my point for
>me.

You see? No need for you to defend Israeli war crimes to make that point my friend.


> > privileged ethnic group who benefit from the system
>> are happy with
>> it.
>
>As in most capitalist democracies. cf. Gramsci.
>
>> The subject classes of course are largely
>> deprived of any vote in
>> that system of "parliamentary democracy".
>
>Which groups in Israel are deprived of voting? This
>is news to me. Non-citizens? Again, capitalist
>normality.

Yeah, its normal in all nation states for the native population to be made non-citizens and locked up by their millions in enormous walled concentration camps. Happens everywhere, what's the big deal?

You dickhead.

Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas



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