[lbo-talk] Re: Return to the dark ages/Well Done!

boddi satva lbo.boddi at gmail.com
Fri Sep 22 12:16:02 PDT 2006


I don't think it's at all clear that capitalists make money profit from war. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that peace is much more profitable.

Couldn't the problem be one of a cutting off of much of the world from the modern economy? To the extent that people in the Third world and Islamic world cannot participate in the post-feudal system, are we surprised that the forces of feudal warlordism and violence engulf their societies?

When a capitalist state goes into a crisis (popping of the stock bubble in 2000), isn't it natural that the leaders of that state start reverting to pre-capitalist modes of political domination?

Boddi

On 9/19/06, EverYoung Global Intellectual Enterprises <uttarbahini at enet.com.np> wrote:
> The article is scholarly and full of historical facts.
> Why is it that the war between faiths is bulging at this period of
> history--why didn't it surge in hitherto? The crucial quesdtion needs to be
> answered in a scientific sociological context.
> Capitalism is rotten to its core in all the fields of
> socio-politico-cultural aspects. Capitalism/imperialism is in the gravest
> crisis ever. It must die or fight the Third World Idiotic War. That is what
> it is doing. It is fighting the Third Idiotic War--not outright, but
> Chapterwise. Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Afghan wars were the preamble to the Third
> Idiotic War--the first chapter of the war is being written currently in
> Iraq. The chapters to follow will be Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan, India,
> China... The arrangement of the chapters will be according to the
> circumstances.
> The root questions will remain unanswered as ever. Why are Muslims the
> backward-most, ignorant-most... community in the world? Why are they still
> in the feudal and pre-feudal epochs in social history with capitalism and
> imperialism grafted thereon in a horrid mess?... And hence what is their
> real crisis? Professionalism and secularism comes from the development of
> capitalism. It is the world-trade that crowned the West with triumph over
> the feudal and pre-feudal non-sense. Iraq remained under embargo for more
> than a decade. Western bosses are the ardent enemies of industrialisation in
> the East/South--naturally, for how can they afford to lose their income and
> profits?
> Islamic word as well as the third world is in a devastating chaos therefore.
> The bourgeoisie, feudal lords and warlords can't understand anything about
> what is going on in the world and what the demand of the time is. How to
> survive and progress is hardly their concern;. they are ritualists and
> status-quoists. They just cling to the wealth and positions they have
> amassed or robbed from the public--and are akin to the dogs of the US
> bosses, that shower crumbs of bread on them.
> Capitalism has reached its ultimate saturation from which it can't grow any
> further--unemployment, poverty, hunger, famines, wretchedness,
> purposelessness of life, frustration, madness, and so forth will be the
> consequences of it--amidst over-production, high scientific achievements,
> exploration, etc. It must devastate many countries to rebuild them--it must
> kill billions of human beings to provide itself a little more space for
> breating. It must destroy the humanity itself to live a bit longer.
> Ramesh Bhat
>
>
> Ramesh Bhat
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sujeet Bhatt" <sujeet.bhatt at gmail.com>
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:34 PM
> Subject: [lbo-talk] Return to the dark ages
>
>
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1875582,00.html
> >
> > Return to the dark ages
> >
> > By drawing on medieval poison about Islam, the Pope has boosted Muslim
> > fears of a new crusade
> >
> > Soumaya Ghannoushi
> > Tuesday September 19, 2006
> > The Guardian
> >
> > The Pope's response to the anger his statements sparked in the Muslim
> > world was more offensive than the statements themselves. He apologised
> > not for what he said, but for Muslims' failure to grasp the intended
> > meaning.
> >
> > That the Pope should have quoted from a Byzantine text on Islam is
> > hardly surprising. The line of continuity between Emanuel Paleologos's
> > conception of Islam - quoted in the papal speech - and Benedict's has
> > never been severed. The massive body of terms, images and narratives
> > on Islam which the church inherited from the middle ages survives
> > intact. There, Islam is depicted as a false creed propagated through
> > violence and promiscuity, with Muhammad as scoundrel, magician,
> > heresiarch, and precursor of the anti-Christ.
> >
> > Though Constantinople's Latin enemies shed few tears over the loss of
> > two-thirds of its territories to Muslims in the seventh century, they
> > did much to ensure the survival of its literature on Islam. Between
> > the 11th and 14th centuries, this was used by the church's propaganda
> > machine as it strove to arouse crusading fervour across Christendom.
> > The Reformation further developed this literary corpus and ensured its
> > transmission into modern Europe. In a 17th-century Christian text,
> > Muslims are described in the most chilling of terms. They are "poison,
> > scabies, venomous snakes ... the dogs in the church".
> >
> > Even if this metaphorical language has retreated in favour of the
> > profane language of reason and subjectivity, its structural
> > foundations remain. Islam is still perceived as the other, the
> > embodiment of evil. Only in this context can we make full sense of the
> > Pope's statements, and indeed of much of what is said today on the
> > subject of Islam. We must defend freedom of expression, but freedom of
> > expression should not be used as a disguise for the incitement of
> > hatred of other races and religions.
> >
> > It is ironic that the Pope, who stresses the unity of reason and
> > faith, which he uses as proof of Christianity's superiority over
> > Islam, has inherited this formula from Ibn Rushd, or Averroes, the
> > Andalusian Muslim philosopher. It was on the basis of this Rushdian
> > equation that the medieval church could reconcile itself with
> > Benedict's beloved logos.
> >
> > The Pope speaks much of religious tolerance in his lecture.
> > Unfortunately for him, the church's historical treatment of its
> > religious others has been marked by violence and aggression, against
> > pagans, Jews, heretics and infidels alike.
> >
> > Not a day goes by without calls to reform Islam being raised-a mission
> > which Pope Benedict XVI has declared impossible. Perhaps it is time to
> > make the same demand of Catholicism and its infallible head. It
> > certainly needs to introduce dramatic reforms to its terrifying
> > conception of Islam, its prophet and followers. Rather than
> > apologising for the church's bloody legacy against Muslims in the dark
> > years of the Crusades and Reconquista, the Pope has chosen to twist
> > the knife in the old wound. He has driven the gulf between the two
> > faiths even wider. He has again pitted the cross against the crescent.
> >
> > The Pope's statements have done much to convince Muslims from Tangier
> > to Jakarta that an open war is being waged against them on three
> > fronts: political, military and religious. The pontiff should not be
> > surprised that his words generated such strong responses in a Muslim
> > world seething with rage at being dragged back to the age of
> > colonialism and civilising missions. Who is to convince Muslims now
> > that the west is not waging a crusade against them, in an alliance
> > between Bush and Benedict, between the powers of the temporal and the
> > sacred?
> >
> > · Soumaya Ghannoushi is a researcher at the School of Oriental and
> > African Studies, University of London, specialising in medieval
> > Christian literature on Islam soumayak at hotmail.com
> >
> > ___________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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