<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006>Wojtek S.: </SPAN>Do "capitalists" (stock holders) also care only about exchange<BR>value?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2>^^^^^^</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2>CB; Yes.  In one version of the theory of labor theory of value, profit is derived from exchange value, and in the real world capitialists and stockholders care only about profit. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2>Seems to me the LTV makes elementary scientific sense in describing the typical business. What is there in a business but people and physical, non-human means of production. There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine that produces without any human input.  And surely every capitalist must sell whatever good or service produced in order to pay the people, and buy the physical means of production. Then what's left over is profit, or surplus value. But that is had from the same sale of the same commodity, good or service, into which only the people's activities and the non-human physical means of production went.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=479145615-19012006><FONT face=Arial size=2>What is the LTV missing as far as what goes into producing the commodity, good or service ? I don't see anything it misses inherent in every production process in private enterprise.  Can you imagine a private enterprise production process that has other than these elements producing value ? How else does the capitalist realize the value except through exchange of the goods or services produced ? Can you give an empirical example of one that has some other elements relating to each other differently than described here ? Go ahead. Tell us.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>