<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:37 PM, ravi wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Once again what does this have to do with immigrants? I need some dental</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">work done right now too. My doctor is willing to see me in July. My</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">insurance company says I am close to exhausting my limits for this year,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">so I may have to wait till next year to get some of the work done.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">As </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><I>Los Angeles Times </I></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">columnist Ronald Brownstein wrote in his December 30, 2003 column “</SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=14&ID=79568&r=1"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FE" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">Health-Care Storm Brewing in California Threatens to Swamp U.S.”</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">, </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“the impending Medicaid disaster is not a problem the states can handle alone; their budget shortfalls are too big.”</B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>The dialogue has been ongoing in CA where there is, indeed, a problem.</B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B><BR></B></SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">And while you deserve respect for the work you do for disabled rights,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">why assume the rest are inactive whiners? Doug and Jordan run this list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and nurture a community. Chuck (who is no friend of mine) seems to be a</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dedicated anarchist activist. Nathan Newman works on labour issues.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Michael Perelman teaches and writes excellent books that hopefully</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">educate and convert the uninformed. From what I can tell, apart from the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">couple of days she seems to have spent getting married, Yoshie seems</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">involved in some form of organizing or activism...</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Yes, but why is it that the LEFT has not joined in the disability rights struggle? It has been going on at least since the 1970s and actually has a history back before WWI. You will not find coverage of disability rights by leftist publications all through out the times of our struggle, yet you are all willing to jump up and shout for the rights of illegal immigrants. I don't get it.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I think many of the "illegals" (as you call them) probably DO DO that:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">live on less than $800 a month. And since I have done that in the past,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I could if I needed to. But this is a horrible diversion / way to pose</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">this...</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Where do you live? $800 a month stretches further in some areas of the country.<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">At around 18/4/06 12:31 pm, Marta Russell wrote:</DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">How would you like to retire on the Mexican retirement plan -- get<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ziltch? The problem with this list is that you are able bodied people</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>who can work and haven't had the experience of being pushed out of<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the labor force permanently.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>You don't seem to think of anyone who<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">doesn't have that ability to have an employer hire you.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>You are not<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">looking down the road at old age or possible disablement.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">certainly would not want to rely upon Mexican disability or<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">retirement benefits.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>So this nation, as crappy as it is, is<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">something.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Say a disabled person gets an opportunity to emigrate to Sweden, which</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(at least for this discussion let us assume) has much more comprehensive</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">health and retirement benefits. A Swedish citizen protests that this is</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">an unfair use of "his" system. You would stick to your principle (above)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and respond that the disabled person should return?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I stated no such "principle". I have never stated that an immigrant should return. These threads get so distorted.</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Marta, the suffering you see around you and the uphill battle you wage</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">lends righteousness to your rhetoric. But at some point you will have to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">eschew the rage and attempt a reasoned response that addresses the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">arguments (to wit: (a) immigrants do not drain the system, but in many</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ways support it, (b) looking at this as an immigrants vs disabled issue</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">clouds the real causes). It would be edifying for all concerned.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">I will address the issue of illegals.</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="5"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">You cannot track the exact costs of illegals because they do not inform nor are they required to inform re their status when they go into an emergency room for services.</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> See:</SPAN></FONT></P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 48.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“When patients come in the emergency department</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B> we do not know or ask if they are documented, we are obligated to deliver care regardless of their status. And as you know, some people do not admit to being illegally in the U.S.”</B></SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 48.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">[</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><I>Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Indigent Care Escalating</I></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">; “Hospitals don't track illegal immigrant factor,” by Rick Badie, January 16, 2003]</SPAN></FONT></P><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">As </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><I>Los Angeles Times </I></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">columnist Ronald Brownstein wrote in his December 30, 2003 column “</SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=14&ID=79568&r=1"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FE" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">Health-Care Storm Brewing in California Threatens to Swamp U.S.”</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">, </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“the impending Medicaid disaster is not a problem the states can handle alone; their budget shortfalls are too big.”</B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Geneva" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">A mother who is applying for Medicaid for her children only, cannot be required to provide her SSN. </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#100043" face="Times" size="5"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><I>Estimates are that </I></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#100043" face="Times" size="5"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">there are currently between 287,000 and 363,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>Veterans aren't too happy that illegals are put at the top of the heap either:</B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">On January 17</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11.0833px;">th</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">, 2003 </SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.va.gov/biographies/principi.htm"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FE" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">Secretary of Veteran Affairs</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> Anthony J. Principi </SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4064-2003Jan16.html"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FE" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">stated </SPAN></FONT></A><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">that VA health care enrollment for </SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jan2003/n01242003_200301242.html"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FE" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">Category 8 veterans</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> would be suspended for one year. (A Category 8 veteran is one who does not have a service-connected disability and has an income in excess of $13,000.)</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">World War II veteran Bob Simmons predicts that “one year” means forever.</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">In justifying his decision, Principi noted that more than 200,000 veterans have to wait six months for an initial appointment and that in today’s economy many veterans </SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“may have a false expectation of care.”</B></SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">There’s a slice of American life circa 2003: veterans wait while illegal aliens go to the head of the line and Bush has cut Veterans benefits again, I believe since then.</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 0.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">I found this on a blog: U.S. Marine Corps Captain David Brockett who served in Vietnam</SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> more than once between 1968 and 1974 made this observation:</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 48.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“The G.W. Bush decision to cut VA health care costs while funneling millions of dollars into health care for illegals is a kick in the gut. This decision is indicative of the </B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B><I>‘I appreciate your past service but what have you done for me today’</I></B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B> attitude that veteran's organizations fight each and every year.</B></SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 48.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“All veterans and their families are painfully aware of the uphill struggle to obtain medical services at Veteran's Affairs hospitals and clinics. We have to provide a ream of personal, financial, and military documentation just to get "in" the system. Once the information is validated then we are informed what our "share" of the medical expenses will be. If we submit the information in March, and we lose our job in April, we have to wait a full year for the VA to reassess our co-payment. With past funding cuts it is not unusual for a veteran to have to travel across several counties to reach a VA medical center.</B></SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 48.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“Meanwhile, the illegal simply presents himself to the nearest hospital for a complete smorgasbord of free medical services. This "squatter" enjoys all of the freedoms that the veteran has fought for </B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>with none of the pain, suffering, or expenses associated with them…</B></SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 16.0px 48.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>“Several generations of this type of neglect has produced children of veterans who are cautioned against serving in the military. Simple solution to this problem is for our government representatives to receive the same health care services that veterans do. Let’s see how long they will be willing to rob Peter to pay Raoul.”</B></SPAN></FONT></P><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><B>So the veterans also are "xenophobes" some of you would probably say.</B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#100043" face="Verdana" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><I><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#100043" face="Verdana" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT><DIV>Marta</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>