<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1543" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Huh? Murder, too, seems widespread, so it's natural and
shouldn't be published?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Jesse Lemisch</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=from_alamut@yahoo.com href="mailto:from_alamut@yahoo.com">jrdavis</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=lbo-talk@lbo-talk.org
href="mailto:lbo-talk@lbo-talk.org">lbo-talk@lbo-talk.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:12
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [lbo-talk] Aptheker
allegations</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>If sexual abuse is so prevelent then one must entertain
the idea that it is a natural human activity thus should not be punished. If
it is inate to the human condition to punish abuse is like punishing people
for having blonde hair. If it is not natural it should be rare and not present
in every family like Jesse suggests.<BR><BR><B><I>Jesse Lemisch
<utopia1@attglobal.net></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">James
concludes that he will not entertain Bettina Aptheker's description
of<BR>her father's sexual molestation of her unless he has
"corroborating<BR>evidence." Once again, this sounds to me like Pakistan.
What witness might<BR>she bring forward?<BR><BR>Anyone who watches Oprah
knows that there is a socially conservative frenzy<BR>about pedophiles. It
has yet to be seen that there is in fact sufficient<BR>attention, reporting
and punishment for events like those Bettina describes<BR>in Intimate
Poilitics. From what I understand, and know directly, just about<BR>every
family -- yes, just about every family has a relative who has suffered<BR>in
this way. Again, people ought to read the book rather than relying
on<BR>secondary and tertiary versions.<BR><BR>Jesse Lemisch<BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Heartfield"
<HEARTFIELD@BLUEYONDER.CO.UK><BR>To: <LBO-TALK@LBO-TALK.ORG><BR>Sent:
Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:38 PM<BR>Subject: [lbo-talk] Aptheker
allegations<BR><BR><BR>> Jesse writes<BR>><BR>> 'Try it yourself:
try to recall an event 40 years ago, and watch the<BR>layers<BR>> of the
onion peel off. especially it you tell the story to a third
party.'<BR>><BR>> Hold on a minute, according to the memoir, this was
not a singular event<BR>> forty years ago, but a regular event, over a
ten year period, from the age<BR>> of three to the age of 13, and not
just any event, but a truly shocking<BR>> event, which nonetheless,
Bettina forgot about for 47 years. That tests<BR>>
credulity.<BR>><BR>> Jesse objects to my citing the many cases where
courts and welfare<BR>agencies<BR>> have presumed parents guilty of abuse
before eventually finding them<BR>> innocent, saying this is not
comparable. It is not comparable. I was<BR>seeking<BR>> to make the point
that far from being the case that child abuse was a<BR>hidden<BR>> crime,
we have for the last twenty years been in the grip of a child abuse<BR>>
panic, which has led to many innocent people being jailed. If you want
a<BR>> comparison with lynching, that is a better one.<BR>><BR>>
What bearing does this have on the Aptheker allegations? Only that we
live<BR>> in a society peculiarly sensitive to the danger of child abuse,
not one<BR>that<BR>> is seeking to cover it up.<BR>><BR>> Jesse
seems to be unaware that abuse memoirs are an established literary<BR>>
genre today, with contributions from Kathy O'Beirne. Constance
Briscoe,<BR>Dave<BR>> Pelzer. In the case of the first two, siblings and
parents strongly object<BR>> to the representation of their families,
apparently refuting central facts<BR>> in O'Beirne's story. People tell
all kinds of stories about themselves,<BR>many<BR>> true, some not so.
Binjamin Wilkomirski compelling holocaust memoir turned<BR>> out to be a
fiction, as did James Frey's addiction and self-harm memoir, A<BR>>
Million Little Pieces. These authors dramatised their lives by
presenting<BR>> themselves as victims of terrible abuse.<BR>><BR>>
On one thing, I can agree with Jesse that we cannot have
'absolute<BR>certainty<BR>> that every testimony along these lines is
totally 100% true', which is why<BR>I<BR>> think it is fair to assume
that Herbert Aptheker's reputation is intact<BR>> unless and until such
time as there is corroborating evidence for Bettina<BR>> Aptheker's
accusations.<BR>><BR>> Forgive me if I definitely do sign off now, got
to pack.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
___________________________________<BR>>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk<BR><BR>___________________________________<BR>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Jim
Davis<BR>Ozark Bioregion, USA<BR><BR>http://ismailism.wordpress.com/<BR>New:
http://www.lulu.com/content/306796<BR>http://shops.half.ebay.com/brothershak_W0QQmZbooks
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>___________________________________<BR>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>