<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> With human beings one must be careful about what we deem "natural" since so much of what we are is socially constructed. Sexuality is certainly natural; but how it is channeled is culturally driven. I would not say that having sex with children is natural; though I would say that children's sexuality is natural and adult sexuality is natural. They're just different and it is best if children and adults indulge in age appropriate sexual play. I know that all sounded very lame but I can't think of a cool way to say it. Joanna jrdavis wrote: <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid20061022021215.2426.qmail@web54510.mail.yahoo.com">If sexual abuse is so prevelent then one must entertain the idea that it is a natural human activity thus should not be punished. If it is inate to the human condition to punish abuse is like punishing people for having blonde hair. If it is not natural it should be rare and not present in every family like Jesse suggests. Jesse Lemisch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:utopia1@attglobal.net"><utopia1@attglobal.net></a> wrote: <blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16,16,255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">James concludes that he will not entertain Bettina Aptheker's description of her father's sexual molestation of her unless he has "corroborating evidence." Once again, this sounds to me like Pakistan. What witness might she bring forward? Anyone who watches Oprah knows that there is a socially conservative frenzy about pedophiles. It has yet to be seen that there is in fact sufficient attention, reporting and punishment for events like those Bettina describes in Intimate Poilitics. From what I understand, and know directly, just about every family -- yes, just about every family has a relative who has suffered in this way. Again, people ought to read the book rather than relying on secondary and tertiary versions. Jesse Lemisch ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Heartfield" <HEARTFIELD @blueyonder.co.uk=""> To: <LBO-TALK @lbo-talk.org=""> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: [lbo-talk] Aptheker allegations > Jesse writes > > 'Try it yourself: try to recall an event 40 years ago, and watch the layers > of the onion peel off. especially it you tell the story to a third party.' > > Hold on a minute, according to the memoir, this was not a singular event > forty years ago, but a regular event, over a ten year period, from the age > of three to the age of 13, and not just any event, but a truly shocking > event, which nonetheless, Bettina forgot about for 47 years. That tests > credulity. > > Jesse objects to my citing the many cases where courts and welfare agencies > have presumed parents guilty of abuse before eventually finding them > innocent, saying this is not comparable. It is not comparable. I was seeking > to make the point that far from being the case that child abuse was a hidden > crime, we have for the last twenty years been in the grip of a child abuse > panic, which has led to many innocent people being jailed. If you want a > comparison with lynching, that is a better one. > > What bearing does this have on the Aptheker allegations? Only that we live > in a society peculiarly sensitive to the danger of child abuse, not one that > is seeking to cover it up. > > Jesse seems to be unaware that abuse memoirs are an established literary > genre today, with contributions from Kathy O'Beirne. Constance Briscoe, Dave > Pelzer. In the case of the first two, siblings and parents strongly object > to the representation of their families, apparently refuting central facts > in O'Beirne's story. People tell all kinds of stories about themselves, many > true, some not so. Binjamin Wilkomirski compelling holocaust memoir turned > out to be a fiction, as did James Frey's addiction and self-harm memoir, A > Million Little Pieces. These authors dramatised their lives by presenting > themselves as victims of terrible abuse. > > On one thing, I can agree with Jesse that we cannot have 'absolute certainty > that every testimony along these lines is totally 100% true', which is why I > think it is fair to assume that Herbert Aptheker's reputation is intact > unless and until such time as there is corroborating evidence for Bettina > Aptheker's accusations. > > Forgive me if I definitely do sign off now, got to pack. > > > > ___________________________________ > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk">http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk</a> ___________________________________ <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk">http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk</a> </LBO-TALK></HEARTFIELD></blockquote> Jim Davis Ozark Bioregion, USA <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ismailism.wordpress.com/">http://ismailism.wordpress.com/</a> New: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lulu.com/content/306796">http://www.lulu.com/content/306796</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://shops.half.ebay.com/brothershak_W0QQmZbooks">http://shops.half.ebay.com/brothershak_W0QQmZbooks</a> <pre wrap=""> <hr width="90%" size="4"> ___________________________________ <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk">http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk</a></pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>