[lbo-talk] Buses Re: Fun With Technology

Gar Lipow the.typo.boy at gmail.com
Sat Apr 7 15:41:55 PDT 2007


On 4/7/07, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Gar Lipow wrote:
> >
> >
> > Even greyhound, awful as it is has larger luggage allowances than
> > airplanes do - the awfulness of greyhound lies in other areas.
>
> Again, buses do _not_ have to be "awful" -- and as late as the early
> '60s were a quite comfortable, even pleasant way to travel. I don't know
> when the change took place. But I would rather spend 6 hours in a
> 1950s-style bus than 3 hours in a metropolitan airport

Absolutely. My point was only that even when awful, ground based transport does not face certain constrains air transport does - at least not to the same extent. And to reinforce your point, I am in email contact with a friend who spent a summer in Wales as a tourist. He said he the long distance buses he took were amazing - comfortable, roomy , clean--with bathrooms, water and snacks. And long distance (as opposed to commuter buses) are one of the most energy efficient means of travel we currently have. Wales is a capitalist country. Is really impossible that the U.S. will upgrade its bus system to a comfort level equal to the Welsh one short of a socialist revolution?

A side note on my original point on trains. Apparently the same thought occurred to the brilliant Dean Baker:

http://www.prospect.org/deanbaker/2007/04/trains_if_only_al_gore_had_the.html


>I was shocked to discover in a conversation with a congressional
staffer that rebuilding the country's train system is a topic that is strictly verboten on Capitol Hill. I was reminded of this when I read that a French train had set a new speed record of 357 milles per hour.


>Trains are far more fuel efficient than planes. Even at much slower
speeds than this new French train, service across the Northeast and between the Midwest and Northeast can be very time competitive with air travel, after factoring in travel times to and from airports and security searches. It is remarkable that politicians don't even have trains on their radar screens. This would be an item worthy of some serious attention from the media.

One last side note. Really fast trains though less emission intensive than planes are not particularly energy efficient. Since Michael Perlman asked about this:

(Via Monbiot's Heat) http://www.engineering.lancs.ac.uk/research/download/Environmental%20impact.pdf

To summarize what it says: a train traveling 350 kilometers (not mile!) per hour uses 10% more fossil fuel than a jet-plane per seat if the electricity is generated from coal or oil. Of course a train does not emit water vapor in the stratosphere, and the electricity does not have to be produced from fossil fuel. But once a train gets really fast, it is no long energy efficient - though depending on the electricity source it can be emissions efficient.



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