[lbo-talk] Fun With Technology

Gar Lipow the.typo.boy at gmail.com
Mon Apr 9 07:51:31 PDT 2007


On 4/7/07, Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com> wrote:
> Ah, but will they give it to you?

OK - point taken. A transport service can always cut expenses by reducing customer service and convenience. I would still argue that a world that made a social choice to replace planes with rail to the extent possible would be less likely to do that.


> > A high speed rail network that covered every major U.S. airport would
> > end up with about the miles of track as our current freight network.
>
> And: it would be incredibly expensive, given that high-speed rail is
> about 15-18x more expensive, mile-per-mile, than roadway.

I specifically said that such a system would need a breakthrough. I never said long distance rail that replaces long trips is practical now. But I' m going to give a reason I think such a breakthrough is not out of reach - because contrary to what you say - cheap 150 mph light rail IS on the drawing boards. It is just being ignored.

I've written about CyberTran before - a ultra-light rail system that is less expensive and higher quality than normal light rail. http://www.cybertran.com .

Well they also have a high speed version, 150 mph for transit. I'll post an article on Grist on the economics of this and the economics of a faster system should a breakthrough occur. The bottom lines is, without a breakthrough we could replace all significant domestic air traffic over land for about double the current cost, and quadruple trip length (meaning a trip between NY and Seattle would take around 24 hours instead of about six as it does now - though the difference would be less on shorter trips). With a technical breakthrough that increased speed to 350 mpg we could replace domestic flights with something that approximately doubles time at about triple the cost. The first could be lived with, but would have substantial impacts on travel. The second, though inconvenient would probably still allow most of the travel you have now.


> Here's a sketch of something much less grand than your "every major
> airport" ...
>
> Mileage Route
> 677 SEA-PDX-SFO
> 440 SAN-LAX-SFO
> 2520 SFO-RNO-SLC-DEN-MCI-STL-IND-CMH-WAS
> 822 LAX-LAS-DEN
> 2550 LAX-PHX-DFW-ATL-MCO-MIA
> 930 BOS-NYC-PHL-WAS-CLT-ATL
> 1350 MSP-CHI-STL-MEM-HOU
> 776 CHI-DTW-CLE-NYC

The cost per KW for a 150 mph CyberTran system is a lot lower than you cite.

The figures for freight rail were morel like 172 K miles last I heard, but then again we freaking shut down heavy rail tracks every year. (At peak 300+ K miles of freight track were in use.)



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