[lbo-talk] not much time to avert catastrophic temp rise

tfast tfast at yorku.ca
Thu Apr 12 22:19:49 PDT 2007



>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tfast" <tfast at yorku.ca>
>
> Let me make a prediction: if capitalists successfully address the
> environmental issue they will do so only after they are forced to because
> the price system has been regulated in such a way as to send the "right"
> signals. But then that will point to the success of the social regulation
> of capitalist markets and not capitalist markets making good social
> regulation.
>
> Why so much contempt in your heart Woj?
>
> Travis
>
> ===============
>
> Which *systems* of prices? There are systems and subsystems and
subsubsystems
> etc. with all kinds of recursions, fractalities etc. across commodities,
> ecosystems, temporal scales, knowledge webs of agents of a staggering
variety of
> species and taxa etc., so the grammar of *the price system* is problematic
to
> say the least. And as we have no idea of what a non-regulated price system
is,
> it's rather difficult to assert where the social regulation of capitalist
> markets leaves off and the capitalist markets regulation of societies
begins; a
> massive problem of undeterminations and overdeterminations. I don't think
this
> is a recipe for despondency; it does mean that we have to give up the idea
of
> the price system as some kind of computational monolith - a vestige of
> neoclassical thinking.
>
> Ian
>
Fer Christ sake Ian, I was hunting for Wojes silly rabbit. What, you don't think most people here know that capitalism is a social phenomena and any attempt to suggest that the price system is "natural" "coherent" and "rational" is a bridge too far. But there is the social regulation of capitalism and then there is the social regulation of capitalism. And then there is socialism.

Travis



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