[lbo-talk] virginia killings

Wojtek Sokolowski swsokolowski at yahoo.com
Sun Apr 22 18:02:40 PDT 2007


--- Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com> wrote:


> > do we have sufficient evidence to suggest gun
> owners have
> > used it actually to save so many situations by
> actually using
> > it against a killer.
>
> This question is problematic because the goal in a
> self-defense
> situation is to end the threat. One claim is that
> "many" threats are
> stopped simply by producing a weapon. The general
> theory of
> self-defense (both moral and legal) includes a
> notion that the fight is
> over if the attacker retreats; a self-defense claim
> crumbles if the
> defender continues the fight. So consider the
> scenario of Bernard
> Goetz: he felt the threat; he produced his revolver;
> and he shot at the
> threat. If he hadn't pulled the trigger, and the
> boys backed off, we
> probably never would have heard the story. It's
> unlikely that he would
> have gotten off the train, found a cop, and related
> the incident. And
> if he did, perhaps he wouldn't have mentioned his
> gun?

[WS:] Actually, this can be determined from the National Crime Victimization Suvey (conducted by the Department of Justice) data. The NCVS is a population survey and does not rely on police reports, and thus captures crimes or attempted crimes that have not been reported to the police. It is based on a representative sample of the US population, so the results are representative of all crime victimizations.

Table 70 in the survey report http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0504.pdf shows protective measures reported by crime victims - both completed and not complteed crimes. The victim attacked the offender with a weapon (gun or other weapon) in 0.8% (eight tenths of a percent) cases, and threatened the offender with a weapon (again not necessarily a gun) in 0.9% of the reported cases. That gives us the total of 1.9% cases when weapons of any kind (guns or others) were used in self defense.

For a comparison - persuasion was used in 10.4% cases, scaring off the offender - in 10.4% cases, running away - in 15.4% cases, giving alarm - 14.2% and resisting - in 25.6% of the cases. The victim attacked the offender without a weapon in 8.6% cases, and threatened the offender without a weapon in 1.4% cases.

These data clearly show that weapons (guns or other weapons) are by far the least frequntly used self-defensive measure. Therefore, the claim that weapons are a good self-defense measure seems to be completely bogus.

Wojtek

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