[lbo-talk] Karl Kautsky on Christianity

[C. G. Estabrook]

The evidence for the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth is about 
as good as that for Julius Caesar or Cicero -- although it's certainly 
true that, were it not for the existence of a movement that kept his 
memory alive, he probably would have been forgotten: Jesus' life and 
death did not have the historical significance of Caesar's -- or of, 
say, Patrice Lumumba's -- as any Christian would admit (at least on 
reflection).

Of course there's always the view of the 19th century German scholar who 
held that all of classical antiquity was a myth, a story made up by 
monks in the 8th and 9th centuries CE.  His evidence was that all our 
documents from the first centuries are written in Carolingian minuscule 
-- copies, it was claimed, but originals, according to him... --CGE

John Thornton wrote:
> Robert Wrubel wrote:
>> to John:  I'm not sure I understand the aversion to
>> the "historical Jesus" school.  If you strip away all
>> the non-contemporary language (probably 90% of the
>> Gospels)and all the theology, you come up with one of
>> the great social radicals in western history, a
>> frighteningly charismatic figure. British writer AN
>> Wilson's "biography" of Jesus gives you some of this
>> flavor.
>> BobW
> 
> I'm about as averse to a historic Jesus as I am to a historic Horus or 
> Mithra.
> We know a great deal about the time the alleged messiah lived.
> In antiquity the records from this era that we have are better than most 
> no thanks to christians burning histories that refute theirs.
> Was there a historic Horus or Mithra?
> Is a historic figure necessary for a cult?
> We have no real historic evidence for JC in his time except for some 
> centuries later weak attempts to insert him into the historical works of 
> others.
> Christianity was divided into multiple sects early on that disagreed 
> with each other on many points including the actual existence of JC.
> Even 2nd century christians bitched about other christians making up a 
> historic JC.
> 
> John Thornton
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