[lbo-talk] [Fwd: Cretinism, electoral and otherwise]

[Russell Grinker]

By Stalinism I mean either a national-reformist variant of Leninism which
resulted from the destruction of workers' democracy in the Soviet Union as a
result of the civil war, or alternatively, a bureaucratic system that was
imposed elsewhere by the Red Army through military conquest. Why use of the
term should preclude serious discussion I'm not sure. Your definition of
what constitutes a victory for workers is also rather puzzling. 

And if, as you seem to think, the GDR was something progressive with a mass
support base, I find it hard to understand why it (along with the rest of
the Soviet Bloc) imploded so suddenly with barely a whimper from ordinary
people.

Angelus Novus wrote:


> Russell Grinker wrote:


> * Stalingrad was good for the German working class 
> because it laid the basis for the reshaping
(division) > of Germany and a 'welfare' state under
the tutelage of > US imperialism? 

Yes.  And another welfare state under the tutelage of
Soviet occupation.


> * Reunification was a defeat - the continuation of 
> the division apparently preferable?

Absolutely.  Come talk to my East German family about
it sometime.


> Does this mean that you regard the continuation of a
> dysfunctional East German Stalinist state - 
> originally imposed as part of a deal between Stalin 
> and the Allies - as a progressive option?

Your use of the word "Stalinist" to describe the GDR
raises real doubts in my mind concerning your interest
in a serious discussion.