>
> --- Eubulides <prince.plumples at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Why not just use the vocabularies of ecology and
> evolutionary theory? There is little dispute that our
> current institutional formations are maladaptive with
> respect to our species and others relations with the
> planet and it gives us a handle for slowly rolling
> back the nefarious grip of theistic worldviews on our
> political imaginations."
>
> I missed the early part of this thread, and didnt
> understand why a discussion of contradiction had
> become involved with disputes about realism, idealism
> and materialism. Broadly speaking, human enterprises
> are contradictory -- wars, formation of states,
> economies, religions, personal relationships. Homer
> ascribes the contradictions to gods; Sophocles locates
> them in human projects. The two great attempts by
> Europeans to control their world -- christianity and
> capitalism -- are tragically contradictory.
>
> BobW
I'm still not sure why we should think of contradiction as anything but artifacts of formal systems. This does not mean that the contradictions are "unreal" but simply that they are qualities of formal systems. They may help us to understand the rest of the world outside of formal systems better, but it does not mean that "contradiction" per-se is anything but an attribute of a formal system. The same for other notions on the same logical level, such as continuity/discontinuity, point (in time, or on a line), etc.
Why are human enterprises are any more or less "contradictory" than say ant "enterprises" -- taken within their ecological niches? Why should they be? Or any more or less "contradictory" than say "quarks." A true believer in the "dialectics of nature" would probably locate the contradictions in the world as it is. I think that contradiction is only that part of the material world that develops formal systems of logic and calculus; i.e. that part of the world to which we can attribute "the mind."
But this is a matter of point of view and one can also assume that the whole universe is some kind of information processing, developing, and creating entity and that the "mindfulness" that produces formal systems is immanent in all that is. Again this is simply a matter of metaphysical preference.
But if your concern is the integrity of formal systems of logic and calculus, and how they apply to the world in general, then there is good reason to "limit" the notion of contradiction to the kinds of definitions that logicians use for the term.
Thus you can informally interpret all human conflict as a working out of "contradiction". But human conflict is no more the working out of "contradictions than conflict between other animals of a species is the working out of contradiction, or the spread of evolutionary diversity, or the transformation of matter into energy, or energy into information, etc. In other words, by a broad definition of contradiction, it is simply everywhere, like continuity and discontinuity..... By fiat I think it would be better to limit the term to formal systems.
Jerry
>
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2007 10:22 PM, Robert Wrubel
> > <bobwrubel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Instead of saying contradictions are in the mind,
> > or
> > > in the physical world, why not say contradictions
> > > arise in human attempts to interpret or control
> > > natural processes? A river will meander wherever
> > the
> > > laws of physics allow it to, without
> > contradiction,
> > > but human attempts to direct a river's course
> > often
> > > fail. Human attempts to plunder the planet will
> > fail
> > > too, eventually.
> > > BobW
> >
> >
> > ===========
> >
> > Why not just use the vocabularies of ecology and
> > evolutionary theory?
> > There is little dispute that our current
> > institutional formations are
> > maladaptive with respect to our species and others
> > relations with the
> > planet and it gives us a handle for slowly rolling
> > back the nefarious
> > grip of theistic worldviews on our political
> > imaginations.
> >
> > Ian
> > ___________________________________
> >
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
-- Jerry Monaco's Philosophy, Politics, Culture Weblog is Shandean Postscripts to Politics, Philosophy, and Culture http://monacojerry.livejournal.com/
His fiction, poetry, weblog is Hopeful Monsters: Fiction, Poetry, Memories http://www.livejournal.com/users/jerrymonaco/
Notes, Quotes, Images - From some of my reading and browsing http://www.livejournal.com/community/jerry_quotes/