[lbo-talk] POST 1776 POLITICAL STRUGGLES:: Who gets a seat at the table.

Jack Stewart jackguy at newsguy.com
Sun Jan 7 18:34:37 PST 2007


POST 1776 POLITICAL STRUGGLES:: Who gets a seat at the table.

Short introduction, with references. -------------------------------------------- JAMES MADISON (1751-1836) was one of the founding fathers of the American revolution, and the fourth President of the United States of America. He was also one of the prime movers at the Constitutional Convention. After signing the Constitution, he worked with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton in writing the Federalist Papers - explaining the Constitution; and attempting to gain support for ratification of it by the states.

James Madison fully accepted the political self regulation of economic or class interests.

The following quote is from Madison's Federalist Paper #10 -

"A landed interest, a manufacturing interest, a mercantile interest, a moneyed interest, with many lesser interests, grow up of necessity in civilized nations, and divide them into different classes, actuated by different sentiments and views. The regulation of these various and interfering interests forms the principal task of modern legislation, and involves the spirit of party and faction in the necessary and ordinary operation of government." [ Federalist paper #10 ]

Wage interests are not mentioned, because, to use the common phrase of the time, "people who earn their bread from their employer," did not have the vote. Working white males didn't fully gain the right to vote until around 1830.

At the time of the U.S. Constitutional Convention, in 1787, most state governments had property requirements for voting and Madison spoke in favor of requiring one for voting in federal elections. Madison; as well as most members of the Constitutional Convention, believed that the only people who should have a legal authority, (the franchise) to influence the government, (vote for a representative) were property owners. However; members of the convention could not agree on exactly what property requirements should be required, and decided to rely on the states voting requirements to protect their political power. Madison accepted this but worried about the future.

The following Madison quote is from James Madison's personal records of the Constitutional Convention.

"Viewing the subject on its merits alone, the freeholders, (property owners without debt), of the Country would be the safest depositories of Republican liberty. In future times a great majority of the people will not only be without landed, but any other sort of property." ( MADISON August 7th. In Convention ) [From Farrand's Records, Library of Congress]

In colonial times, the property owner was called master. After the American revolution urban workers refused to call the property owner master, and started using a foreign Dutch term "baas," pronounced somewhat like boss. They felt that this was less degrading. However, the translation of the Dutch word boss just happens to be master. Surprise! Surprise!

This view of the working class is illustrated by another quote from a Pennsylvania delegate to the Constitutional Convention. The very wealthy Gouverner Morris. Gouverner was his first name and not his title. When speaking on the subject of the working class and the vote he said -

The following Madison quote is from James Madison's personal records of the Constitutional Convention.

"We should not confine our attention to the present moment. The time is not distant when this Country will abound with mechanics & manufacturers who will receive their bread from their employers. .......... The man who does not give his vote freely is not represented. It is the man who dictates the vote. Children do not vote." ( MADISON August 7th. In Convention ) [From Farrand's Records, Library of Congress]

==================================== MY DOCUMENTED SOURCES 1. The Federalist paper #10 can be found at any local library and all over the Internet. 2. The origin of the modern word "boss" can be found on the Internet, or using a very good dictionary. 3. Farrand's Records can be accessed on the Internet at the Library of Congress (see below)

THE RECORDS OF THE FEDERAL CONVENTION OF 1787 The Madison and Morris quotes are located in Volume II at p. 202 - 204 You must do a search for the quotes in - [ MADISON August 7th. In Convention ]

*WARNING: *This can take some time and effort.

(Farrand's Records Library of Congress) http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwfr.html

------------------------- Jack

Although the pile of democratic nations has been growing, when the ability of U.S. voters to influence their government is considered, the U.S. voter is close to the bottom of that pile!



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