>CB: In fact, with a woman as the dominatrix over a man, one could even
argue that there is some feminism in it.
Brian: There is also feminism in it when a woman subs to a man.
^^^^ CB; In what sense ? This sounds fishy.
^^^ CB:> You might want to consider that it is not immediately evident how BSDM is distinct from some other things, since there is some superficial similarity.
How long does it take to get past the superficial?
^^^^^^ CB; Don't you think there are lots of people having initial awareness of it all the time ? Why else would Jim Straub complain that he has to "explain" it so much ?
Anyway,"superficial" is me being polite, accepting your side in this discussion, for the sake of "argument". The various posts on this thread have some suggestion that the similarity is not all superficial. I don't see where you have demonstrated that the similarity is entirely superficial , either this time or the last times we discussed it.
^^^^
>CB: Rather than be amazed that some people thinking about it for the first
time make comparisons, you should really be able to understand their
confusion more readily rather than acting as if it makes no sense for
anybody to wonder about it.
But Charles this is not your first time at the bdsm rodeo.
^^^^ CB: Actually, I didn't say it was. In the above, I am referring to the people Jim Straub and ChuckO complain they have to explain it to. In my first post on this thread I said:
"But from the defenses of BDSM on this list in particular over the years, I'm thinking that the "pain" inflicted in BDSM must be more along the lines of "pain that's close to pleasure", of paradoxical psychological legend, and even common experience, as perhaps in "tears of joy". Or something like that.
As to criticism of BDSM, I think you two ignore the fact that there is a big problem of domestic violence against women in the world, certainly in the US. A big _left_ project is to get men to stop being "sadistic" toward women. So, it might help if you explained in detail how BDSM is actually only superficially similar to or actually not at all like domestic violence against women. For you to ignore this obvious question, and act so surprised that non-BDSM people have some questions about it is kind of esoteric on your parts. "
>CB: And there is a big problem of male violence against women that many
leftists struggle with and are sincerely concerned to do something about.
Brian:Then work on eliminating male privilege and stop worrying about who's flogging whom.
^^^^ CB: Have you really proven that there is this absolute distinction between the two ? That celebrating flogging doesn't interact with male privilege, rape and domestic violence ? Maybe not with you, but can you really speak for all BDSMers, or those who do variations on your principles of BDSM ? Can you really be sure that no rapists or domestic abusers get some justification in their minds for their practices from the public broadcast of celebration of BDSM culture and ideology ?
Are you working on eliminating male privilege ? Or are you just feigning concern about that ?