TV INTERVIEW WITH FORMER FOREIGN MINISTER YEVGENY PRIMAKOV ON SADDAM HUSSEIN AND US POLICY TOWARD IRAQ, VESTI NEDELI TV RUSSIA SUNDAY PROGRAM WITH SERGEI BRILYOV, JANUARY 14, 2007 Source: www.fednews.ru
Anchor (Brilyov): And now let us look at an event which attracted little notice because of the New Year, the execution of Saddam Hussein. There is a sensational version put forward by Yevgeny Primakov. We prepared this report together with Ivan Kudryavtsev.
Kudryavtsev: This is Saddam's last appearance in public as President. Within days Baghdad would be taken. But he still condescendingly offers his hand to be kissed by sycophants. The next time Iraqis would see their dictator he would look like this, then like this, and finally like this.
But in those April days Saddam was demonstrating his confidence that nothing untoward could happen to him personally. And he was self-confident not only in front of TV cameras. Several days before the start of the war, Yevgeny Primakov came to Baghdad bringing a message to Saddam from Vladimir Putin urging him to voluntarily resign. Saddam refused to resign and his closest ally, Tariq Aziz, dropped a strange remark looking at the receding back of the leader who was leaving the room.
Primakov: He said: "We'll live another ten years and you will see who was right, our great president or you," he said addressing me. I didn't pay much attention to that remark but I think maybe he thought that he would survive and in another ten years would play a role in Iraq.
Kudryavtsev: According to Yevgeny Primakov, the Americans themselves instilled that faith in Saddam. He believes the Americans were playing a tricky game with Hussein since 1979 when an Islamic revolution took place in neighboring Iran. The new regime declared America to be its chief enemy. The US embassy was captured. Washington urgently needed an ally in the region. That ally turned out to be Iraq led by Saddam who launched a war on Iran.
Primakov: The Americans gave him direct help in that war. This is not concealed and it is confirmed, among other things, by the visit there by Rumsfeld, until recently US Defense Secretary. At the time he represented the United States in the Middle East.
Anchor: It is also borne out by arms sales statistics.
Primakov: Yes, and they gave him arms, and not only arms. He was provided with the disposition of Iranian troops and American satellite pictures and so on, he got everything and the CIA provided him with data.
Anchor: Are you suggesting that the attacks with the use of chemical weapons the Iraqi Army launched on Iranian positions were launched on a cue from the Americans?
Primakov: Yes, I maintain that the American AWACS that were based in Saudi Arabia egged him on toward it. At the time the Americans had no qualms about it.
Kudryavtsev: Donald Rumsfeld felt no compunction about shaking the hand which only several months earlier signed an order that led to the massacre of 148 citizens in the Shia village of al-Dujail when an attempt on Saddam's life had been made. And it did not occur to Hussein that one day he would be hanged on charges of this massacre.
The Americans forgave a lot of things to their ally in fighting Iran, including massive reprisals against rebel Kurds with the use of gas.
Primakov: And this gave Saddam a firm conviction that even though they might dip him from time to time, they would not drown him. And he got further proof of that when Bush Sr., after defeating his army in Kuwait did not march on Baghdad and did not topple the regime.
Kudryavtsev: And another face: IAEA inspectors were allowed to see Iraq's nuclear facilities only after they had been bombed by the US air force. The world never learned how US uranium enrichment equipment got to Iraq.
Nikolai Veniaminov is one of those who analyzed the samples collected in Iraq by IAEA inspectors in the early 1990s. He came to the conclusion that the Iraqis indeed were trying to use that equipment to obtain highly enriched uranium.
Veniaminov: And the Iraqis themselves were saying in 2002 that they had obtained highly enriched uranium, they intended to produce 15 kilograms. We they mad? Why did they do it? Because it was already in their interests. They tried to point a finger at the exporter. But only the data compromising Iraq got into the press. And it couldn't have been otherwise. Because if everything that the United States did had been published, it would have appeared as a provocateur in front of the whole world.
Kudryavtsev: It was as if Washington was inviting Saddam to play a losing game, Primakov argues. And perhaps in exchange for his life he did not blow up the bridges over the Tigris which the Americans used to enter Baghdad, and perhaps that was why Iraq's combat-ready national guard suddenly vanished. In Yevgeny Primakov's opinion, America provided Saddam with hope until last. He was declared to be a prisoner of war and prisoners of war are not subject to be executed. He was persuaded to launch an appeal although he did not recognize the trial in the first place. Finally, they instituted a new trial, this time into the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds. It seemed that the Americans wanted the trial of Saddam to last a long time.
Primakov: And all of a sudden he was awakened at night, told to put on his clothes and hanged. I think it was done in order to prevent him from saying his last word. And in his last word he may have revealed all this game. And if he had said all this, I assure you, the current President of the United States would feel very uncomfortable in his presidential chair.
Kudryavtsev: The execution of Saddam looked more like a Lynching. His Shia enemies were jubilant, they were chanting the name of one of their leaders and hurling insults at Saddam. For Hussein's supporters, Iraqi Sunnis, the dictator became a hero and a martyr, and so more acts of revenge and explosions are in the offing.
Dennis Kucinich (Democratic Congressman): The main question is whether the hasty execution was an attempt to avoid a thorough investigation of the contacts between the people who work in the US government and Saddam at the time when he was committing his crimes. Such an investigation must be carried out.
Kudryavtsev: Congressman Dennis Kucinich is a Democrat. The Democrats hold a majority in Congress and they favor a phased withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. Meanwhile, the Republican George Bush in his address to the nation presents a new plan for Iraq that would increase the garrison in Baghdad by two times and suppress pockets of terrorism, but at the same time bring back the middle level of the ruling Baath Party into government.
Dennis Kucinich: A defeat in Iraq would be a disaster for the United States. In the event of our defeat in Iraq, radical Islamic extremists will grow stronger and will recruit more fighters. They will topple the government, wreak havoc in the region and use oil resources for their own ends. This would spur Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons. Our enemies will secure a base in Iraq for planning and preparing new attacks against the US.
Kudryavtsev: Bush also accused Syria and Iran of supporting terrorists in Iraq. The following morning American troops broke into the Iranian consulate in Erbil and, violating the Geneva Convention, arrested several diplomats who were allegedly coordinating the actions of Iraqi fighters. Simultaneously, the US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice set out on an urgent mission to the Middle East, but the United States won't be able to put out the fire that is blazing in the region.
Primakov: It would be a good thing if the United States were becoming increasingly aware that many issues simply cannot be solved without Russia. We have links with Syria, no one else has. We have links with Iran, but the United States does not. We have contacts with Hamas, while the United States does not. We have contacts with Hizbollah, but the United States does not. In this context Russia can do a great deal and hopefully it will.
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