[lbo-talk] Liberal Intellectuals and the Coordinator Class

Robert Wrubel bobwrubel at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 17 11:45:59 PDT 2007


The issue is getting sharper, but it's still abstract. a crew of people doing hard physical work out in the woods might reasonably get a larger portion of food to take with them. That in turn might make an overweight person sorting mail feel envious. And here's something from the real world to chew on: what if there are still mountain bikes in the new world, and hikers and strollers start getting pissed off that the bikers are chewing up all the trails. How do you solve that justly? BobW --- Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:


>
>
> John Thornton wrote:
> >
> > Tayssir John Gabbour wrote:
> > > On 7/15/07, John Thornton
> <jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> To directly answer Doug's question as posed to
> Bill: "do you think a
> > >> just society should allow some people to coast
> by on the labor of others?"
> > >> Of course! When my work allows others the
> freedom to not work it
> > >> maximizes my own freedom.
> > >> I actually have more freedom under such a
> system than I would under any
> > >> other system. Anything less is a less just
> societal arrangement.
> > >>
>
> I haven't been following this thread, but reading
> this I would say the
> question is wrong. "Just society" is a phrase to
> play with in a seminar
> in metaphysics.
>
> As a matter of fact, however, a society which
> organized itself as to
> prevent all freeloading would be intolerable to live
> in for anyone. An
> attempt to construct in the mind a blueprint for
> such a society is a
> gross misuse of human power to think. The key phrase
> which must figure
> in this discussion if it is to make any sense at all
> is "revolutionizing
> practice," i.e. practice aimed at the transformation
> of human relations
> which transforms the agents of that practice
> themselves. Within that
> framework, and assuming that the practice achieved
> in a preliminary way
> its general aims, a rough and ready sense of what
> "justice" -- within
> those circumstances -- meant, and they would attempt
> to work out ways of
> achieving, roughly, social practices which satisfied
> that rough and
> ready shared sense of justice. (There is no such
> thing as Justice; there
> are only historically generated shared conceptions
> of social relations
> which come to be called just.)
>
> Within that context we can indulge ins some
> speculation as to the
> occurrence of freeloading within those social
> relations, and it seems
> pretty obvious to me that those practices would NOT
> make any effort to
> avoid some significant but barely significant
> proportion of freeloaders
> within the society, in order to avoid a tremendous
> waste of human energy
> in preventing such freeloading, a waste of energy
> which would generate
> activities and feelings that would tear the society
> apart. Some
> freeloading is the price of avoiding a plunge into
> barbarianism. How
> much must be tolerated or even encouraged can only
> be decided by
> immediate practice, not dreamt up in advance.
>
> Carrol
>
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