And you're the guy who would interdict even _talking_ about alternative forms of social organization by reference even to real-life attempts to create them. It's apparently OK, however, to say what these forms "must" do, even though we can't discuss what they might be and how they might do the imperative things. Fortunately you don't get to say what alternative forms "must" do or pre-empt the decisions that people might make under them. How would you enforce your rule, anyway, shoot all the engineers? Absurd. The transition, if it occurs will be plenty painful enough without imposing ridiculous, unenforceable, and impossible conditions on an alternative form. I should think,a anyway, that you would happy enough if people got rid of exploitation, oppression, and bad innovation -- why should you care if they continue with good innovation?
--- Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Ian's thought if not his manner of
> > putting it. It's a sort of "I got mine" attitude.
> > Personally, I like iPods, new drugs, quieter mass
> > transit, and so forth. As do most people, so I'm
> not
> > worried about Carrol's Luddite tendencies.
>
> So do I like a lot of the stuff. But change -- even
> pleasant change --
> does hve a negative effect on the human immune
> system. Tthe person you
> love replies yes to "Come live wirh me and be my
> love" and two days
> later you have the worst cold of your life. I think
> it really obtuse,
> and insulting to the humabn imagination, to believe
> that change occurs
> only if encouraged or forced by social arrangements.
> But capitalist
> ideology fetishizes chang for the sake of change,
> and capitalist (and
> possibly the market, cap or soc) relations of
> production force change
> whether desirable or not.
>
> I've made it clear many times that I reject moral
> judgment of people
> _under present conditions_ who go shopping for the
> sake of shopping.
> There is nothing AT ALL wrong with identifying
> shoppong for new gadgets
> with the richest form of living. Such Shoppong
> should be seen as a fine
> and admirable exemplification of the human capacity
> to triumph over and
> find delight in the weirdest conditions. Perhaps
> even societies of the
> future will have a scattering of specially designed
> obstacle courses
> (i.e, shopping malls) fust as we have acquariums and
> art museums.
>
> But there ids no way for humanity to get control of
> its own history (not
> to speak of global waming and peak oil) without
> bringing the dynamic of
> endless product differentiation and expansion to a
> screeching halt, to
> be reintroduced to some finite extent only after a
> century or so of
> careful thought and debate.
>
> Carrol
> ___________________________________
>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/