Just as many Islamists who have taken their ideas about capitalism from Marxism don't recognize it, as James Heartfield noted. Then again, Marxism had taken ideas about dialectics, oppression, and liberation from, among other things, Christianity, which was in turn influenced by Islam and Judaism among other things, so influences have been mutual.
> >but, if you are a Westerner, even if you are irreligious, parts of
> >your ideas about legal and moral codes of war most likely came from
> >doctrines elaborated by theologians like
> >Augustine and Aquinas.
>
> I know. History of law is one of my favorite topics. But that's
> what I mean by generalization. Parts of my ideas about art,
> literature, work, and much more are connected with that same
> tradition. What I mean to point out is that Doug was being specific
> when he said:
>
> >religious leftists here
> > > > > are way too likely to presume the good intentions of their enemies,
> > > > > and believe that appeals to their conscience will work.
>
> The key word there, I think, is *here.* There's a long tradition
> here of folksinging and placing flowers in rifles here that has a
> basis in that presumption of everyone being good and nice given the
> chance. When you respond with:
There's a long tradition of left religious warriors here, too, from first indigenous warriors and slave rebels to John Brown to Malcolm X, who have said, By Any Means Necessary. Today, most religious and irreligius leftists, except a few adventurists, here are practical if not principled pacifists, for that's what our political conditions dictate.
> >Many faiths have their just war doctrines and martyrs
>
> I don't see the connection except in a general way.
It's good to recognize similarities and acknowledge mutual influences between religious and irreligious left traditions, so both sides will know that they have a lot in common, which will make cooperation easier by removing grounds for misunderstanding and false senses of superiority. -- Yoshie