I'm talking to liberals and leftists here, of the political junkie types. I don't expect the rest of America to vote for Kucinich or Nader or even Hagel when the best informed liberals and leftists, who actually know where HRC, Obama, et al. stand on Iraq, Iran, etc., by and large refuse to vote for either . . . and try to get them to go away from electoral politics altogether if that's what it takes to ensure their marginalization. -- Yoshie