[lbo-talk] Iran before Ahmadinejad (was capital punishment in Iran)

tfast tfast at yorku.ca
Sat May 5 08:43:41 PDT 2007


Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:


>--- Yoshie Furuhashi <critical.montages at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>[WS:] While I agree with the above, you seem to go
>much further than mere debunking of the US propaganda.
> You seem to be suggesting that Iranian nationalism
>(and Third World nationalism in general) is somehow
>preferable to the US nationalism (aka "imperialism")
>or Israeli nationalism (aka "zionism"). And that is
>what I, and I believe others on this list, find
>disingenuous.
>
>If we reject nationlism in principle, then US
>"imperialism" or Isareli "zionism" is no better or
>worse than Iranian nationalism, everything else being
>equal. So why defending Iranian nationalism as
>something "better" than other nationalisms?
>
>
>
Well theoretically you may have some point in the abstract about the nature of nationalism and its close cousin nativism but on a less meta plane this does not make much sense. Both the US and Israel have used the siren call of nationalism to support imperial expansion. If the US simply used nationalism as a rallying call to shore up legitimacy for its ruling class' within the putative boundaries of the US it would be one thing but US nationalism is used to legitimate direct and indirect imperial control of those outside its borders. In this sense, US nationalism is worse than Iranian nationalism. The object of Iranian nationalism is Iran not, say Canada, whereas the object of US nationalism is Iraq and at times seems like Iran too. Hence Iranian nationalism is about national liberation whereas US nationalism is about foriegn subjugation.


>Of course, everything else is not being equal, and
>most rational people would agree that the US or
>Israeli nationalism offers a far better protection of
>human rights, the rule of law, and democractic
>governance than the Islamist variety. Therefore, most
>rational people would prefer to live under the US or
>Israeli nationalism than under the Islamist variety.
>But that is a matter of personal preference, I
>suppose.
>
>
>
It is not a problem only of personal preference. Israelis prefer the Israeli system because it affords democratic rights, the rule of law, and human rights protection to citizens of Israel. It provides the opposite to the people in the occupied territories and thus in the occupied territories Hamas provides more of these public goods then the occupying Israeli army. Ditto can be said for the US. And there is some irony that Iran looks like a bastion of law, order, security and human rights compared to its neighbour Iraq. Indeed one might venture that if the US were to actually afford others the same public goods it provides its own citizens that US democracy would be a stronger pole of attraction. But viewed from those who *actually* live under the direct occupation of the US system, eg. afghanis and Iraqis, and those who live under brutal governments supported by Washington, eg. Saudis, Jordanians, Egyptians etc. the US system looks quite corrupt and its promises hollow. So perhaps people of the world would prefer the US system but these are not the choices on offer or their experience of the outcomes generated by US nationalism. When an American sees the American flag he or she may well think of security, the rule of law, democracy and the litany but when many foreigners see the same US flag fluttering in the breeze they see the exact opposite and recoil in fear. And it is this last point that most Americans just don't get.

Travis Fast



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