"Russell Grinker" <grinker at mweb.co.za> responded:
This is what one of the "alte Genossen" (Lenin) said of the approach suggested below which he termed 'imperialist economism':
"All 'democracy' consists in the proclamation and realisation of 'rights' which under capitalism are realisable only to a very small degree and only relatively. But without the proclamation of these rights, without a struggle to introduce them now, immediately, without training the masses in the spirit of this struggle, socialism is impossible."
************
What do you know, I agree with Lenin here--partially. I'm not "in" to "training the masses". Social revolution includes dialogue between workers and some have more useful information than others in terms of advancing the struggle to abolish wage-labour. But, if by "imperialist economism" you mean that I don't participate anti-war street demonstrations and condemn the current war for control of oil, you're wrong. I do advocate the abolition of the wage system at home and abroad and I suppose that has an economic/"economist" aspect to it.
Yoshie wrote:
The anarchists and socialists who opposed WW1, I expect, wouldn't support a capitalist-imperialist state's "democracy assistance" for the purpose of regime change today, nor would they be happy to have their revolutionary internationalism equated with liberal imperialism.
*********** I suspect that the non-bourgeois socialists (of whom, I include most anarchists) would have welcomed social revolution in all countries. If you think about it, that would constitute "regime" change.
> That "left in form, right in essence" dogma is not this, still living,
socialist's cuppa :
> it's an old formulae designed to keep the workers cheering for one ruling
class
> against another.
Letting Washington pursue its regime change campaigns with impunity is to keep the workers, especially the American workers, cheering for one ruling class, especially the most ideological wing of the American power elite, against others. Keeping the American workers cheering for them in no way helps to get rid of the capitalist state in either the USA or Iran or anywhere. *************
I don't lead the workers; I am one of them. As I've pointed out many times before on this list and above, I do not suffer the foolishness of nationalist cheerleading for any ruling class without comment; this includes the theocratic dictatorship in Iran. I'm for organizing classwide unionism at home and abroad. IMO, that's the best hope for the workers of the world.
Mike B)
An injury to one is an injury to all http://www.iww.org.au/
____________________________________________________________________________________Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/