Jerry Monaco wrote:
>
>
> But there is a deeper problem in what you are saying. If you really believe
> the following, and I quote you, ___"So in practical terms, you or I taking
> responsibility for the actions of the U. S. state is about as silly as you
> or I taking responsibility for the actions of the Iranian government. "___
I agree pretty much with this post, and would like to develop parts of it much more. But for now I want to respond only to this. I think both the concept and,even more, the word _responsibility_ ought to be kept out of left political discourse. Moralism or anything that vaguely evokes moralism disrupts conversation and can corrupt thought. And you don't have to invoke "responsibility" to make the following crucial points:
> Then in "practical terms" nobody in the U.S. had any reason to organize
> against the Vietnam War or the wars the U.S. fought in Central America. We
> might as well organize to limit the violence of the Iranian government or
> the Indian government or the Burmese government or simply do nothing at
> all.
"We," however explicated, are NOT morally responsible to do any damn thing. BUT it is absolutely essential to understand that potentially we can do one hell of a lot. With one further proviso: We can't will a movement into existence. That depends on a particular convergence of conditions which are beyond our control. A large proportion of Americans now disapprove of the Iraq war. (That means nothing in itself in terms of building a movement. More on that on another occasion.) But it was not because of any efforts on our part that the number approving has dropped from 90% (or whatever) to 30% (or whatever). Just the events in Iraq by themselves have done that. Now many of them of course disapprove for the wrong reasons. They don't count for the present. But many of them do disapprove for something vaguely like the right reasons. There is our constituency. Our? Who is we: active left organizers. What do we need to do? There are not enough of us. We need to recruit more leaders from those who come within reach of us at demos, local maillists, etc. But we can't do that by laying a moral burden on them.
So that is our main task now -- think out how we can reach people who already more or less agree with us and turn them into active left organizers. We have to have enough of us when the next big imperial blunder comes so that then we can raise an army to do something.
But please forget worrying about moral responsibility. Work on pointing out (a) possibilities and (b) the futility of voluntarism, and how on that basis to recruit more local leaders.
Carrol
Frankly, I don't think you really believe what you are saying. If
> what you are saying is true then there was no reason for abolitionists to
> organize to try to stop slavery, or to organize try to limit the effects of
> imperialism anywhere. Is this what you really believe? Do you really
> believe that we have as much responsibility to organize to end the actions
> of foreign governments as we do to end the actions of the government that we
> in part benefit from?
>
> One final note: We live in a business run republic. But we also live in a
> country with a very high level of individual freedom, esp. compared to most
> countries around the world. We have more freedom to organize than any other
> country I have spend a great length of time in (Central American countries
> and Brazil mostly). This greater amount of freedom means a greater amount
> of responsibility. We could use our greater amount of political freedom to
> raise the costs of the uses of violence to the rulers and owners of our
> society.
>
> Nothing I have said is new. I am just saying what I am sure you already
> know. In fact I actually think that you knew that this would be my reply
> and for some reason you prefer to play dumb.
>
> Jerry
>
> Miles
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Monaco's Philosophy, Politics, Culture Weblog is
> Shandean Postscripts to Politics, Philosophy, and Culture
> http://monacojerry.livejournal.com/
>
> His fiction, poetry, weblog is
> Hopeful Monsters: Fiction, Poetry, Memories
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/jerrymonaco/
>
> Notes, Quotes, Images - From some of my reading and browsing
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/jerry_quotes/
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