Going back to the recently published experiment with mice in regards to empathy. If a single mouse feels pain that is one matter but if trauma caused to one effects them all because they experience empathy then that is another matter. I have no problem with giving a mouse cancer, testing out cancer treatments then slicing the little guy open to see if they work. I do have a problem with injecting a mouse with acetic acid, just to watch it writhe and squeal in pain so you can see if other mice react "as if" they experience empathy. Then claim that their behaviour doesn't "prove" they experience empathy anyway. That's fucked up but it continues because people hide behind agnosticism. If we admitted that it is more likely that higher animals experience empathy then the rules regarding animal experimentation would change. Too many scientists already resent the incredibly small constraints placed on them where animal research is concerned. Scientists are still human, they experience all the human emotions and reluctance to admit to wrongdoing, admitting errors, and giving up power are very human reactions. Objective scientists have already classified mice of the Genus Mus, rats of the Genus Rattus, and birds as not being animals so they can be exempt from the AWA regulations. Labeling mice and rats as "not animals" is insanity to the average citizen but fortunately objective scientists are here to tell us it is so. In the research with macaque monkeys in regards to mirror neurons the researchers were quoted as stating it took them many years of seeing the same results over and over before they came to believe it. Obviously good experiments need to be repeatable but that isn't what the researchers claimed they did. They didn't believe monkeys could be empathetic. If the results had confirmed non-empathy they would not have run the test repeatedly for several years, They would have it repeated it a time or two. They may claim, like Miles, to be agnostic but really they disbelieve in animal emotions and empathy and any experimental results that suggest otherwise "must" be wrong. One last word. We all know that humans, the embodiment of empathy, will give each other electrical shocks for no other reason than someone in a white coat told them to. Very empathetic those humans. Non-human primates won't do this unless you BOTH reward them with food AND deny them food otherwise. In exchange for food normally fed non-human primates won't deliberately inflict pain on another helpless primate in a similar type of experiment. But this is no reason to believe that non-human primates can experience empathy. Only humans can do that.
John Thornton