<div> <div>thanks for quoting that marx.<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">regard, too.  It is possible that irreligious leftists, while having<br>an easier time overcoming sexism and homophobia, may have more trouble <br>overcoming racism than religious leftists.  Many religions have<br>national and international structures through which people of<br>different races, nations, etc. are compelled to work together, the<br>structures that irreligious leftists generally lack. </blockquote> <div> </div> <div>I actually have an anecdote about such a structure.  Back in 2002-4, I lived in Richmond VA, was involved in a living wage coalition and a chapter of Food Not Bombs there.  So was my partner at the time; she, however, was primarily immersed in her training to be a methodist minister (she used to boast she was the world's only christian anarcha-feminist methodist preacher-intraining).  She was white.  The two main methodist congregations in richmond then (one white, one black), had a joint program related to the national body's Racial Reconciliation program.  So the deal was, of the two women who were in training to be methodist ministers there then (one white, one black), my partner did her youth pastoral internship at the african-american church, and vice versa with the other woman, who was afro-american, and did her youth pastoral internship at the white church.  I think I remember this right. </div> <div> </div> <div>What this meant was that, of all the subcultural young radicals we hung out with doing radical activism with, Emily was the only person who actually predominantly worked in the black community in richmond (richmond is about 58% black I think?).  Her ability to connect people across the city's racial divide in organizing was pretty remarkable, for living wage and anti-war purposes, altho she wasn't unique in that respect, maybe unique among younger people.  </div> <div> </div> <div>But the more radical kids, well, the punks, weren't having any of it.  There was a gradually increasing amount of hostility to her, her faith, and her organizing.  In retrospect it seems clearer that despite containing a few kids who genuinely wanted to get into real grassroots organizing, most of the people in that chapter of food not bombs wanted a traditional food not bombs chapter, which is to say, a punk clique. </div> <div> </div> <div>The irony of the whole situation, though, was that when people were trying to get rid of her from the group, much of the attack was that she was racist!  It was a baffling, absurd moment, because she was probably the only person in the organization who mostly worked, socialized, worshipped and organized in people of color contexts.  Not to say that makes one deprogrammed of white supremacy per se, but rather, that there was almost a degree of anger at her for puncturing their bubble with a little bit of the majority of the city.    </div> <div> </div> <div>I wish I knew more about the program she was in, but I was only so good at being the punk boyfriend mindful not to be too hungover to come see her preach sunday mornings.</div> <div> </div> <div>Sunday mornings!  Damn!  Who came up with THAT shit anyway!  Couldn't we all get a tuesday afternoon off work to hear about god?  Didn't these apostles go out drinking wine?  I mean, of all the... christ!  </div> <div> </div><br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Many irreligious leftists protest that they have no trouble working<br>together with religious people, but, when they say that, they <br>generally mean they have no trouble working together _with religious<br>leftists on issue-by-issue basis_, like opposition to the Iraq War and<br>support for higher minimum wages.  Whether irreligious leftists can<br> work with religious people who are not clearly on the Left or Right at<br>present and have a mix of progressive and reactionary ideas, on a<br>project of social change that goes beyond this or that single-issue<br>movement, is an open question. </blockquote> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>That does seem to be the more interesting question, but the answer seems more clearly to be no.  Radical leftists in the US are pretty exlicity unable and unwiling to get down with ordinary working people who are not clearly left or right but have a mix of progressive and reactionary ideas -period-; be they evangelicals, nation of islam, agnostics or part of the substantial chunk of our population that doesn't go to church but simultaneously seems to believe angels exist, the government was involved in 9/11, the da vinci code is true and the rapture is coming in their lifetime. </div> <div> </div> <div>Seriously, doesn't it seem to be a historical period for the bulk of the US population to go one way, and the left to be a progressively smaller faction of a faction with elaborate rules and explanations for why it can't and doesn't deal with that bulk?  The explosive mass character of ideologically conservative christianity is one aspect of this trajectory, but there's plenty of others. </div> <div> </div><br> </div>