Andie, they were firing on a city with missile launchers. How do you stop them?
--- On Sun, 8/17/08, andie nachgeborenen <andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: andie nachgeborenen <andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Sad Leninism.
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 7:09 PM
> Well, I guess I thought a bunch of things had already put
> paid to the neocon PNAC dream of unchallengeable US
> hegemony, like the Iraq war, successful N. Korean and (so
> far) Iranian defiance of the US on nuclear issues the
> collapse of the dollar, and US economic crisis and the rise
> of China as a coming economic superpower. If the Russians
> had to contribute to the point it was really unnecessary to
> add emphasis by invading Ossetia and killing thousands of
> people.
>
>
> I guess I'm a tender-hearted liberal and not
> tough-minded enough, but war really does bother me a lot
> even when it's justified, and this war was manifestly
> neither justified nor carried out in a just manner.
> International Law does not provide for war to make a point,
> but only in self defense; probably it's childish of my
> to even point this out. In any event the point had already
> been made. Putin was just taking advantage of US weakness to
> commit his own lawless acts.
>
> The lawless acts was the aggressive war. I take no position
> on whether S. Ossetia ought or ought not to be part of
> Georgia or Russia or Ossetia or Tennessee for that matter.
> The way that sort of thing is settled in a civilized world
> in an alternate universe is that you hold a fair referendum
> under UN auspices. If after a fair vote the S. Ossetians
> wanted to leave Georgia and the Georgians wouldn't let
> them under force, then it's time for lots of
> negotiations, maybe ultimately a careful and discriminate
> UN-sponsored military force to get the Georgians to go.
>
> I'm tired.
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/17/08, Jim Farmelant
> <farmelantj at juno.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Jim Farmelant <farmelantj at juno.com>
> > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Sad Leninism.
> > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Cc: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 11:21 AM
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:59:01 -0700 "boddi
> satva"
> > <lbo.boddi at gmail.com>
> > writes:
> > > Lenin is dead, folks.
> > >
> > > The old world of black hats and white hats is
> gone.
> >
> > Who in the hell here is talking that way? I think
> that
> > what most people here believe is that Putin had
> > delivered Uncle Sam a much needed bodyblow.
> > I suspect that few people here have illususions that
> > Putin somehow represents a resurrection of the
> > old dreams concerning Soviet socialism or anything
> > of that sort. Most people here, I don't think
> > would approve of Putin's actions in Chechnya for
> > instance. What he has done is make clear that
> > the US dream of a unipolar world, in which
> > the US is free to invade countries and overthrow
> > the governments of other sovereign countries
> > whenever it sees fit, using any pretext no matter
> > how flimsy, is now coming to an end. I think
> > most people here see this as a good thing.
> > The resurgence of Russia combined with the
> > rise of China as a major economic power and
> > the development of a loose alliance between
> > those two countries plus other smaller countries
> > like Iran, Cuba, Venezuela etc. means that
> > Uncle Sam now to has to be much more
> > circumspect in the way it pursues its
> > interests in the world. The recent changes
> > in tone of the Bush Administration concerning
> > Iran for instance is indicative then even they
> > realize that the world has changed, no matter
> > how much they may dislike it.
> >
> > >
> > > If you want to believe that the U.S., Western
> Europe
> > and Barack
> > > Obama
> > > are the "Great Satan" and that Vladimir
> > Putin will save the world,
> > > you
> > > have completely faded into irrelevance.
> > > ___________________________________
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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