I think that this pardons business it trivial and irrelevant and I don't think the fate of society is determined one way or another by the legality of firearms.* With regards to the rule of law, however, I think a dubious assertion it being made. In fact, laws came into existence to protect the interests of the ruling classes. Take the Constitution, e.g. A substantial part of it is dedicated to addressing issues arising from slavery, such as what to do with fugitive slaves apprehended in another state. The reality is, Laws are only going to be good, from a left perspective, to the extent the country or institution is democratically responsive. Furthermore, most of the advantages we enjoy, though now legal protected, were brought into existence by people who at the time would have been breaking the law by engaging in the action they were.** And in the long run I think we would transcend the need of laws if society progresses in a constructive direction.
*Public discussion of them is tolerated probably because the powers that be don't care that much one way or another, like abortion. **Incidentally, many worthwhile laws, such as the Geneva Convention or labor laws, are unenforced.
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:48:09 +1100
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> From: billbartlett at aapt.net.au
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] the Bush style of clemency: love your gun
>
> At 11:47 AM -0500 3/12/08, Percival Myers wrote:
>
> > > Which is that pardons undermine the whole idea of the rule of law.
> >
> >In your view, when someone gets railroaded, they should have no hope of
> >recourse after the Supreme Court - assuming they can afford to get that far?
>
> In my view, individual citizens should have legal recourse. Not have
> to rely on political recourse. Ultimate recourse should be in law,
> not in politics. Political interference in the legal system is
> anaethema to the rule of law.
>
> Recourse to a Presidential pardon is so exceptional as to be
> irrelevant in practice anyhow, it is only relevant on a political
> level. In the sense that it can smooth over the most blatant and
> public miscarriages of justice. Which is a very, VERY, bad thing,
> because such blatant miscarriages should force changes in the law,
> not exceptions to be made.
>
> In this case, laws which deny people convicted of crimes full
> citizenship rights, such as the right to vote or own a weapon for
> legitimate purposes, need to be struck down. How is that ever going
> to happen if people don't see any problem with the laws? How are
> people ever going to see any problem if exceptions are made in the
> most egregious cases that would outrage public opinion?
>
> What kind of legal system is it that allows for exceptions to be made
> for some people on purely political grounds anyhow? What kind of
> people are you Americans not to be outraged by that? I'll tell you
> what kind of people, people who accept that there's one rule for some
> people and another rule for others.
>
> In other words, people who don't accept, don't even comprehend the
> concept, of the rule of law. Thus don't live under the rule of law.
>
> If you don't live under the rule of law, then by default you live by
> the primitive rule of the gun. Hence this twisted idea that everyone
> is equal if everyone has the same size gun. Different rules for
> different people, no problemo, just so long as we all have a gun!
> That democracy equals ownership of a gun so you can deter the
> government from taking away your freedom. What a load of codswallop.
> And I say that as someone who has owned a gun (and rifles) nearly all
> my life.
>
> That isn't what guns are for. They aren't useful to defend a
> population against oppressive government. A firearm in the hands of
> one person is useless against the force of the state, but unnecessary
> to a whole population which makes revolution against the state.
>
> Like I say, you don't even know what the rule of law means, it an
> alien concept.
>
> Bill Bartlett
> Bracknell Tas
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
_________________________________________________________________ Imagine a life without walls. See the possibilities. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/122465943/direct/01/