[lbo-talk] Obama, community organizer

Charles Brown charlesb at cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us
Mon Feb 11 09:41:14 PST 2008


"Dwayne Monroe"

What I'm saying is better analysis of the situation than you can get from just about anywhere else.

.................

Well, I'm calling a halt; I've said all I can say.

I'm leaving out the rest of your counter-argument and letting the sentence quoted above stand alone because I think it sums up the true difference between us on this question.

^^^^ CB: So, the true difference between us is that I'm confident in what I say and you aren't ?

^^^^^

You're convinced that your analysis (which includes the remarkable claim that you know the motivations of most or maybe all BHO inclined voters) is clearer and better structured than most others. That leaves us with no where left to go except in an endless circle.

^^^^ CB: There's nothing wrong with my being confident in what I say. I've been studying these issues for forty years or so. If I don't know something by now... I am not at all obligated to take a posture of college student uncertainty about these issues. I'm way grown.

It's not remarkable to claim I can infer substantially most of the motivations of most who vote for Obama. There are lots of opinion polls on things like that, and this list, through Doug H. reports on them all the time. I'm a good learner.

The main thing I'm talking about the objective result: lots of white people voting for a Black candidate ( who is not a right winger) is a good thing in America because it is a significantly anti-racist event.

^^^^^^^^ It's one thing for a Richard Feynman to express unshakable confidence that his understanding of quantum electrodynamics is better than anyone else's. It's quite another thing for one of us to unequivocally state we have nearly perfect knowledge of a complex political situation which is still in-motion and which, I feel, represents a new development in the art of perception management.

^^^^^ CB: No need to treat famous intellectuals as smarter than we are. And if you aren't almost as smart as Richard Feynman, how do you know he's so smart ? Takes one to know one.

I didn't say anything about "near perfect or perfect knowledge". I said better analysis than you can get just about anywhere else. Where else are you saying you can get a better analysis ? If I know of a better analysis elsewhere , I would adapt it as my own and be giving it here.

Why speak if you don't think you are giving the best analysis you know of ? When you write something here, are you thinking, "but there are probably better analyses than mine out there " ?

^^^^^^^

Also, I think the BHO issue (indeed, the entire US election) has taken up more than its fair share of bandwidth for a little while - though I'm sure there's a lot more to come.

...

One thing I'm noting: too deep a love of a well established ideological frame - for example: Marxism, or a 1960's formed view of how 'race relations' work within the US - is useful and sometimes beneficial but can, on the flip side, produce a fossilization of perspective. There are new things happening in the world which are neither completely nor adequately explained by these venerable conceptual tools which, I suspect, you're bringing to the table.

^^^^ CB: But you are not certain of that , right ?

Marxism is the philosophy of this era, taking era to mean the era of capitalism. It will be fundamentally correct until capitalism ends. It's not a matter of "love" , but the test of practice . Also, dialectics is a philosophy of change, so its very essence is that your thinking must not fossilize. It's first question is "what is new and emerging, developing ?" Leninism is the concrete analysis of the concrete situation or " what's happening right here, right now ?".

By the way, the big new here is more white people than ever voting for a Black candidate for pres (and more people voting for a woman for pres.)

As to my view of race, it goes back before the sixties to people like Soujourner Truth, Frederick Douglass, John Brown, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, W.E.B Dubois, Paul Robeson, Charles S. Brown, The Browns, the Hinksons, Coleman Young, et. al, through the sixties Angela Davis, Dee Brown, JoAnn Watson, the 1967 rebellion in Detroit, hundreds of Black people face to face, hundreds of white people face to face, lots of Indigenous Americans, two degrees in anthropology, the US law on race ( 14th Amendment and all that), and developing, dialectical , not fossilized, right on through events in the 70's, 80's , 90's and 00's.

All of that doesn't completely or adequately explain everything happening today, but what new are you thinking of happening today ? We are talking about Obamania, white people voting for him, Black people voting for him, the campaign issues. What new happening are you thinking of that is critical in explaining that ?

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