>>>> <wrobert at uci.edu>
> Human beings obviously have instincts. You hit the right part of the
> knee, the leg goes up. However, there are a few steps missing from the
> argument if we want to argue for what you are arguing for.
> ^^^
> CB: Play devils advocate and fill in the steps. I've given you some of
> the steps in previous posts.
Charles, its your argument. I think the onus is on you to make it.
> I think of that knee thing as a "reflex", which is an instinct, yes.
> ^^^
>
> What I would
> not accept is that there are instincts that somehow structurally
> determine
> human existence.
> ^^^^
> CB; The structure determined by heterosexual instinct would be one male
> , one female having sex.
>
Okay, this is a claim. One Male and one female having sex is the
structure that is determined by the 'heterosexual instinct.' Carrol and I
have already responded to this once already in different forms. Evidence?
What relevant understanding about human social structures comes out of this? Carrol is right to point out that there is a tautological element to this proposition. I would add that there is a certain emptiness to it as well, in that it drops any meaning to add to internal coherence.
> (ie when you try to make this a socially meaningful
> claim, it loses validity very quickly.)
> ^^^^
> CB: Sex is a social act and relation. So, that's the meaningfulness of
> it here.
>
Yes, determined by social structures and institutions, which are not
'instinctive.' At this point I should note that at least Lacan and
Levi-Strauss are coherent in what they are arguing. I really couldn't say
for sure what you're trying to say.
>
> As a last note, there are a lot of
> things that we do 'instinctively' and are part of our 'second nature'
> that
> could be classified as ideology (within Althusser's use of the word)
> ^^^^^
> CB; My thought is most of ideology is not instinctive , but socially
> constructed or determined in the sense that Miles Jackson emphasizes.
You obviously missed the point, which is that a lot of ideology frequently operates within the realm of the 'unthought' or 'unconscious.' These are ideas that appear to be 'instinctive' or part of 'human nature' but are nonetheless socially determined by social organization.
> Ideas about sex are a bit of an exception to most ideas in their
> structural determination, though sex is a mix of natural and social
> determination. Most things are less of a mix or have less natural in
> their mix. Again, Miles is the most diligent here in insisting on this.
Once again, what does this mean?
robert wood
> robert wood
>
>> Robert, In your opinion , do humans have _any_ instincts ? Or are we
> an
>> instinctless animal species ?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>>>> <wrobert at uci.edu> 06/12/2008 3:50 PM >>>
>> Charles, I think some work needs to be done to link this with a
> claim
>> about instincts towards a 'heterosexual instinct' among humans.
> This
>> is
>> also true about the Feuerbach/Marx material, which seems to be
> missing
>> a
>> few steps. Robert Wood
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct
>>>
>>> Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a
>>> particular behavior. Instincts are unlearned, inherited fixed
> action
>>> patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli.
>> Innate
>>> emotions, which can be expressed in more flexible ways and learned
>>> patterns of responses, not instincts, form a basis for majority of
>>> responses to external stimuli in evolutionary higher species, while
>> in
>>> case of highest evolved species both of them are overridden by
>> actions
>>> based on cognitive processes with more or less intelligence and
>>> creativity or even trans-intellectual intuition.
>>>
>>> Examples of instinctual fixed action patterns can be observed in
> the
>>> behavior of animals, which perform various activities (sometimes
>>> complex) that are not based upon prior experience and do not depend
>> on
>>> emotion or learning, such as reproduction, and feeding among
>> insects.
>>> Other examples include animal fighting, animal courtship behavior,
>>> internal escape functions, and building of nests.
>>>
>>> Instinctual actions - in contrast to actions based on learning
> which
>> is
>>> served by memory and which provides individually stored successful
>>> reactions built upon experience - have no learning curve, they are
>>> hard-wired and ready to use without learning, but do depend on
>>> maturational processes to appear.
>>>
>>> Biological predispositions are innate biologically vectored
>> behaviors
>>> that can be easily learned. For example in one hour a baby colt can
>>> learn to stand, walk, and run with the herd of horses. Learning is
>>> required to fine tune the neurological wiring reflex like behavior.
>> True
>>> reflexes can be distinguished from instincts by their seat in the
>>> nervous system; reflexes are controlled by spinal or other
>> peripheral
>>> ganglion, but instincts are the province of the brain.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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