[lbo-talk] Chuck's Cassirer posts

Les Schaffer schaffer at optonline.net
Wed Jun 18 14:47:12 PDT 2008


Eubulides quoted:
> Unfortunately for this anecdote, recently rehashed in the article on Pythagoras in Grove Music Online, the sounds made by a blow do not vary proportionately with the weight of the instrument used.

this is not necessarily true. lots of things will have frequencies that vary (inversely) proportional to length and hence to weight. so it would depend on the shapes of the anvil hammers that Pythagoras heard. if they were of approximately equal cross-sectional area and varied only in length end-to-end, their modal frequencies excited by end-on striking would be (inversely) proportional to their weights.

searching for accounts of this, i found one, below:

^ <http://oregonstate.edu/%7Ecoolmanr/WhyTwelve/references.html>from

The Cambridge History of Western Music Theory, page 10:

In Chapter 6 of The Manual of Harmonics (early second century CE),

Nicomachus of Geras narrates the legendary story of Pythagoras

passing by the blacksmith's shop, during which in an epiphany of

sonorous revelation, he discovered the correlation of sounding

intervals and their numerical ratios. According to the Nicomachus,

Pythagoras perceived from the striking of the hammers on the anvils

the consonant intervals f the octave, fifth, and fourth, and the

dissonant interval of the whole tone separating the fifth and forth.

Experimenting in the smithy with various factors that might have

influenced the interval differences he heard (force of the hammer

blows, shape of the hammer, material being cast), he concluded that

it was the relative weight of the hammers that engendered the

differences in the sounding intervals, and he attempted to verify

his conclusion by comparing the sounds of plucked strings of equal

tension and lengths, proportionally weighted according to the ratios

of the intervals. [3]

[3] Levin, The Manual of Harmonics, pp. 83-97. a related version of

the Pythagorean myth is narrated in Chapter 5, pp 142-143.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ioa9uW2t7AQC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=pythagoras+hammer+interval&source=web&ots=wtDXRaRdTQ&sig=2nmphFdNjxqd-vxggsBd_FYdySA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result

if this account is historically true, then Pythagoras was certainly on the right track, if wrong in specifics. a modern view would require analysis of the dynamics of sound-producing objects. this brings in shape, weight, material stiffness, all in one errr harmonious package.

Les

Les



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