[lbo-talk] The State and Capitalism

[John Thornton]

Mike Ballard wrote:
> On Mar 11, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Lew wrote:
>
>   
>> Both. Marx envisaged a transition between a first phase of  
>> communism and
>> a higher phase of communism - but they are both *communist* societies.
>>     
>
> Any idea on how we get there from here, or will it all happen in some  
> lightning bolt transformative repture? How do you dispense with money  
> when the stuff is drilled deep into our heads?
>
> Doug
>
> *****************
>
> Marx suggested labour time chits.  That passage from "The Critique of the Gotha
> Programme" has been quoted endlessly on LBO, so I won't quote it again.  But
> while labour time chits might look like money, they don't function the same way
> in a socialist society because they aren't a commodity which can be bought and
> sold.  Money is a commodity.  The key element with these labour chits is time. 
> Four hours of time gets you four hours from the social store of goods and
> services, with the necessary deductions to keep the means of production going. 
> You can't accumulate these chits to buy the means of production and employ
> people for wages: people aren't selling their skills and time as commodities to
> be used by the employing class to accumulate the commodities the employed
> produce for them to sell for profit.

How do I buy a home with labor time chits? How do I arrange financing or 
are loans done away with as well? If so how do I buy a home with no loan?
What is to stop me from trading my labor time chits with my neighbor in 
exchange for sex that she uses to buy groceries or new tires for her 
car? If I do this how much different in reality will these chits be than 
money?
There was a time when food stamps (food chits) were given to people and 
they ended up being used like money to purchase sex, drugs, radios. etc.
It's no use saying this will all be worked out by future generations. I 
know it will but it will be worked out in future generations by persons 
with a coherent plan. If you have no plan no one will listen to you.

John Thornton