> Torture is _not_ primarily a device for gathering information
> but, like B-52 bombers, is aimed at terrorizing the general
> population.
I agree that torture can be used that way (and for the record, I'm against it); in the context that we're discussing -- the signing statement by Bush last year, the recent veto, and McCain's concurrence -- it is not being used that way. It is specifically being used to gather 'high value' intelligence in particular cases.
That's the example that, for instance, Scalia and Hillary bring out: if it can prevent an imminent attack.
The position has to be: preventing an imminent attack is not an acceptable excuse for it.
/jordan