[lbo-talk] Joe the Plumber, $250k+ business owner, as average American?

shag shag at cleandraws.com
Thu Oct 16 16:47:54 PDT 2008


At 06:51 PM 10/16/2008, Sean Andrews wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 1:11 AM, B. <docile_body at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > About this new "Joe the Plumber" crap:
> >
> > I'm very interested in the specific details of a) whether Joe the
> Plumber works "10 to 12 hours per day [sic]," b) as "a plumber," and c)
> because of this, in the current economy, can buy a business worth OVER a
> quarter of a million dollars.
>
>It gets better...according to Bloomberg, he really doesn't like to pay
>taxes--so much so that he owes the state of Ohio $1,200 in back taxes.
> Also, they point out that, under Obama's plan, he would pay...wait
>for it...$900 more for his estimated $280,000 business. And this,
>evidently, is enough to push him over the edge so that he would be
>unable to purchase that business.
>
>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aWDHvDjnDnTs&refer=home
>
>also, according to the NYT, he isn't a licensed plumber
>
>http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/
>
>and there is speculation about him being related to someone implicated
>in the Keating trails, though that seems even too pedestrian and
>stupid for the McCain campaign.
>
>-s

well, he is probably too stupid to run his own business because the moron seems to have conflated _income_ with a business's gross receipts. Joe said himself that:

""I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes $250,000 to $280,000 a year," he told Mr. Obama during an exchange that was filmed and later showed up on YouTube. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" "

There is a difference between a _company_ grossing $250k, and an individual -- which is why so many of us who freelance take advantage of the usually very easy to obtain status of "corporation" -- often the "S Corp". Whereupon Dipshit would deduct the cost of the truck/van he drives, license fees, travel to and from jobs, even the work-specific clothes he wears -- which wait staff, walmart workers, etc. generally cannot even do.

B -- to make 250k as *income*, you'd have to _clear_ $125/hr. (You can figure hourly rate quickly by taking the salary, removing the 0s and dividing in half. If you make $110k/yr, your hourly rate is ~$55; $30k = ~$15/hr; etc.

And sure, he'd could conceivably make considerably less and still buy the business: business loan using maybe his house, plus the business itself, as collateral. Sometimes people just buy an existing business, like the wasband bought an existing business (a 30 seat coffee shop where he'd been a cook), when he was something like 26. He bought it "DBA" -- doing business as -- and simply paid something like a mortgage on it to the bank that really owned it -- the business. He sold it two years later to another idiot who was unaware that, like the wasband, he'd have to work 4 a.m. to midnight 6 days a week to keep the place afloat.

The usefulness of doing this is that you buy the existing business name (already know) and generally its customer base. It'll cost you more, but generally you can look at the gross receipts, expenses, and figure out if it'll be a business you can pay yourself a salary and still pay the rest of the bills and maybe clear a small profit.

from the article:

And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacher's gross receipts from his business is $250,000 ­ and not his taxable income ­ then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama's plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut.



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