[lbo-talk] Speaking of female candidates...

John Thornton jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Sep 4 19:37:08 PDT 2008


Joseph Catron wrote:
>> He can claim anything he wants but unless a tribe agrees with him he's just
>> someone with NDN ancestry like millions of other American's my SO included.
>> It isn't how he identifies himself that matters but how the tribe identifies
>> him.
>>
>
> He identifies with a particular group of Alaska natives, all of whom
> are culturally and politically distinct from "NDNs," and has never
> claimed any association with the latter. Please at least get that
> straight
>

Huh? Which Alaskan natives aren't NDN's?


> Beyond that, I don't know that I'm really up for addressing claims
> that ethnicity depends upon recognition by a political authority.
> Like, getting tribal papers in your book resembles baptism for a
> Catholic convert?
>
> What would you consider natives from unrecognized nations? We had
> something like a dozen groups of them in Virginia, several of which
> didn't even organize rudimentary governmental structures until recent
> decades.
>
> Do those with tribal papers not count until the relevant tribes get
> federal papers, or are state papers a-okay in your book? How about
> tribal papers with no government papers backing them up?
>
> What are people of predominantly Yup'ik ancestry who don't have a
> one-quarter blood quantum from a single tribal council?

How else would one determine tribal membership except by consensus of the tribe? Any tribe recognized by other NDN's is a tribe. I don't care what Uncle Sam says. If tribes don't get to decide who is a tribal member then who does? Every individual?

Try this experiment Go around to different tribes in the US and tell them you're now a member of their tribe and you don't need your ethnicity recognized by their political authority. Then demand access to scholarships or such. Let me know how the experiment works out.

You'll have to ask a Yup'ik that last question but it seems nearly impossible to me to imagine how such a persons ancestry claims would look. I'd probably just say they are of native ancestry and leave it at that. I can tell you how the Cherokee tribe would handle such a case but that wouldn't answer your question.

I do hope you see the humour in a non-native writing with regards to NDN's "I don't know that I'm really up for addressing claims that ethnicity depends upon recognition by a political authority. Like, getting tribal papers..." Telling NDN's how to best manage their own affairs is someplace most white people fear to tread.

As far as the cases in Virginia (and elsewhere) without any recognizable governance structure how can there be a claim to being a tribe since a governance structure is necessary for tribal functions? The tribes that were effectively disbanded due to white predations will have to work out their tribal governance issues with neighbouring tribes. The tribes that survived and have small but functional governance structures (even informal ones) but are not federally recognized are still tribes. Any NDN whose existence is completely separate from any tribe is just an American of native ancestry if they live in the US. A tribe is what gives an NDN their identity. Even a distant crappy relationship with a tribe is still a tribal relationship. Without a Cherokee tribe I cannot be Cherokee just as without a USA one cannot be an American. Seriously, since ethnicity is dependent upon there being a distinguishable grouping, and for NDN's that is the tribe, how can one be NDN without a tribe?

John Thornton



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