[lbo-talk] good morning my fellow ecosystems

Carrol Cox cbcox at ilstu.edu
Wed Apr 15 21:25:59 PDT 2009


Gar, you probably know better than I do what areas of the world should grow only grass, not grain, because of water problems. The Great Plains? What happens to world grain output if they are removed from cultivation. What about the areas that are really unfit for anything but brush, weeds, etc. -- the kinds of things that only goats can consume. Too much of the world's land is under cultivation now. What happens when there is no longer irrigation for the central valley in California? What happens when water is no longer available for the lettuce fields of Arizona?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you have thought it through.

Carrol

Gar Lipow wrote:
>
> Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> >As a general point, I doubt that the world's need for protein could be
> even minimally satisfied by universal vegetarianism.
>
> Umm, that may be the most factually inaccurate statement you have ever
> made. I'm not a vegetarian, but aside from vegetarian sources like soy
> beans that provide complete proteins you can easily provide complete
> proteins from incomplete multiple sources - grains and pulses in the
> same dish and so on. There are micronutrients that can only come from
> animal sources, but protein no problem. And in terms of sustainability
> - you can supply vegetarian protein on much less land than growing
> crops to feed to animals.
>
> I'm well aware we can raise animals sustainable by grazing. But you
> can raise row crops sustainably too - either through various organic
> and near-orgain means that combine biodiversity and soil building. One
> example is organic notill with a four crop rotation (legume, grain,
> fiber, green manure). But there are plenty of others. If we took the
> land we currently devote to raising food for animals in the U.S., and
> we could produce complete protein and whole grain carbohydrates
> annually sufficient to support 800 million people via soil-building,
> low-input, biodiverse means. And we would still have enough grazing
> land to produce meat equal to half our current meat production via
> green grazing that also built soil. Worldwide there is little doubt we
> can produce protein, carbohydrates and fiber (flax, cotton, hemp etc)
> for a population of 9.4 billions (the expected peak) on a lot less
> land than we currently do if the world went mostly vegetarian. And the
> world could supplement this with tiny amounts of animal protein both
> as supplement, and to provide certain essential fats and
> micronutrients that are found only in animal sources from green
> grazing if it wished. I don't advocate this, but they idea that
> vegetarianism can't supply sufficient protein is a very strange and
> wrongheaded one to hold at this moment. It has been discredited for
> decades. (And I know LPS argument about replace grain growing with
> green grazing for Bison. and it is not a bad one. But my point is not
> the vegetarianism is the best or only way to feed the human race, just
> that it is neigher impossible or unsustainable as a protein source. )
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