[lbo-talk] Angela Davis a Stalinist?

[c b]

I want to add that hindsight analysis also is distorted by the fact
that we know what happened after the 20's and 30's, whereas those
living in 1930 in the SU had to make decisions not knowing when they
would be invaded. In this case, we know that the Nazis didn't invade
until 1941.  In 1930, the Soviet leaders didn't know that when the
invasion might come. So, they had to rush full speed ahead for
industrialization and collectivation. A slower pace , as Trotsky
proposed, might have got them caught in invasion in 1932 or 1935.
Afterall there was a Depression in all of capitalism from the
beginning of the 1930's, and war was a way that the imperialists might
seek a way out of the Depression. It was not clear then, as opposed to
now, that the invasion wouldn't come until 1941.

Today we can confidently pronounce Stalinist industrialization and
collectivation premature, forced , rushed and evil. Not so easy to do
so in 1930.

^^^^^

Carrol Cox

The prooposition that "X would have been different if..." is ALWAYS
disputable. It is really silly to call any speculation re what might
have been "indisputable."
The process of industrialization has always been indescribably bloody
-- and in that the Soviet Union did not differ much from England & the
U.S. I doubt that it would have been much different whoever was in
charge in Moscow.

^^^^^

CB: Yes, historical counterfactuals are fantasies, and certainly not
certainties.

The SU _had_ to rush industrialization because they anticipated,
correctly, that imperialism would invade again, as it had in 1918 to
try to crush the first socialist nation. They couldn't know which
imperialist power or powers would invade, but it was certain that only
an industrially based military could resist.

 In the end,  the SU still suffered an enormous slaughter , the
biggest in the history of the world, but its industrial bas and the
elan of the masses of people was sufficient to defeat the Nazis
forces. This elan and enthusiasm of the masses is important evidence
that repression was not as mass as the impression one gets from the
hordes of anti-Sovieteers.  90% of the casualties suffered by the
Nazis were inflicted by the Red Army. The Western front was tiny
compared to the Eastern front. It can be said without exaggeration
that it was the Red Army that saved the world from fascism. There's a
quote from General MacArthur, American military genius,  to this
effect - The world now depends on the noble banners of Red Army to
save it, or words to that effect.

The Stalinist crash industrialization saved the world from fascism.