> it is used as a *cough**choke* metric of success by open source
> proponents > in the first place. Hey pa! Fewer bugs! Faster
> releases! (no planned obsolesence! [1]
>
> quick! without looking, who wrote these posts?
>
> "1) Security - with source code you can know that you are getting
> what you think you are getting. 2) Customizable - missing feature
> foo, no need for feature bar? Then change it. 3) Support - I work
> with open source software, and I work with million dollar enterprise
> software. Hands down, support I get from the "scene", via irc and
> usenet and some mailing lists, is more accurate and comes much more
> quickly than support I pay for. 4) Performance
> - open source software often (although not always) outperforms
> closed source software 5) Price - open source software is often free
> software "
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2000/2000-September/015933.html
That is me. I ranked support third - after what I [called back a decade ago] Security. Which is the same as what I just wrote - that with access to source code, the control of the software is with the user instead of any corporation of government.
I am impressed that you were able to dig that up though - and I am shocked I've been on here almost a decade. ("Support via usenet" - talk about a long time ago - ha!)
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:33:11AM -0700, Jordan Hayes wrote:
> We must live on different planets, as Barney Frank might say. Mostly
> when I run into a problem these days (NB: my experience with
> freely-available software predates Stallman's Manifesto), I find
> *hundreds* of little nook-n-cranny forum sites with people posting the
> problem that I have and snot-nosed teenagers telling them that they are
> stupid for wanting to do what does not work.
We're comparing anecdotes at this point. I would agree if you were to say that navigating all the "forums" can at first be daunting and some skill at knowing where to look - specifically skill at writing google queries - is something one must learn and can be a barrier to entry.
> > The political and social advantage is that GPL software can never be
> > taken away from the user by a corporation or a government.
>
> I think we're really drifting off-topic here, but if you're saying that
> this particular advantage outweighs all the other things that come along
> with it, then I'm stumped.
Well I don't experience a lot of the negatives. If the context is my personal computing, then by using FOSS I get the absence of viruses, spyware, forced obsolescence and DRM, and side benfits of better performance and equal-to-better support.
> This is by far the common case; you can (and did) list a small number of
> items that people get worked up about, but if a guy like Doug doesn't
> seem bothered by the tradeoff presented by iTunes, I think you're pretty
> far from establishing the political angle as being that important.
Aren't we all here because in some context, we have found it difficult to convince people of what is politically important? :)
I don't begrudge Doug for using iTunes but it is a little silly to conclude the latest Ubuntu is "ugly" and "hard" when the time spent using it is.....never. He doesn't want to invest any time in changing from what he knows because he can afford to continue to use the Apple line. That isn't meant to be snarky - if you saw my monthly cash flow there would be plenty to wag your finger at. Dwayne (IIRC) has written much better than I on why one ought to care about the political aspect of iTunes so I don't have much to add.
> I see the whole F/OSS world as Just Another Vendor, with it's ups and
> downs; it's a slam-dunk decision in only a few cases, with software that
> has such high value and has had such attention paid to it over the years
> that you'd be an idiot not to use it. But like my Michael Jordan
> example, it's the exception and not the rule. And for every Apache,
> there's a Microsoft Excel to counter it.
>
> For the rest: it's usually a slog through the requirements, just like
> anything else.
I don't disagree with this for the most part. But I think the competing software in that sticky middle - Rhythmbox vs. iTunes, GIMP vs. Photoshop, Pidgin vs. AIM/YahooIM/MSN/etc/, VLC vs. Windows Media Player, F-Spot vs. [whatever ppl use to manage photos], etc. - is a lot closer in capability than you imply.
Matt
-- GnuPG Key ID: 0xC33BD882 aim: beyondzero123 yahoo msg: beyondzero123
We don't know if it was a case of international terrorism... or road rage.
-FBI Agent Frank Perry, commenting on the three-state alert regarding a car containing 'middle eastern men' which alledgedly tried to run a fuel truck off the road.