[lbo-talk] the cloud: worse than just data hostage computing

Jordan Hayes jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com
Thu Dec 3 08:39:30 PST 2009


Wojtek says:


> Government cannot just demand access - it must follow a due
> process, which is a very legitimate way of proceeding under most
> circumstances.

That's an overestimate; many (most?) of the requests receive very little consideration or oversight.

Not sure if you followed this link in the zdnet story:

http://paranoia.dubfire.net/2009/12/8-million-reasons-for-real-surveillance.html

It's a good read, and contains gems like:

However, while there are many ways the government can

monitor an individual, very few of these methods require

an intercept order.

And:

In addition to the fact that they are far easier to obtain,

pen register orders are also not included in the annual US

courts wiretap report. Not to fear though -- a 1999 law

requires that the Attorney General compile annual statistics

regarding DOJ's use of pen register orders, which he must

submit to Congress.

Unfortunately, the Department of Justice has ignored this

law since 2004 -- when five years worth of reports were

provided to Congress in the form of a single document dump

covering 1999-2003. Since that one submission, both Congress

and the American people have been kept completely in the dark

regarding the Federal government's extensive use of pen registers.

And finally, with reference to your claim that government surveillance is different from corporate:

The reporting requirements for intercepts and pen registers

only apply to the surveillance of live communications. However,

communications or customer records that are in storage by third

parties, such as email messages, photos or other files maintained

in the cloud by services like Google, Microsoft, Yahoo Facebook

and MySpace are routinely disclosed to law enforcement, and there

is no legal requirement that statistics on these kinds of requests

be compiled or published.

You're also completely ignoring wholesale collection methods (like Carnivore) that have been in place as far back as 2000. No "due process" is required there ...

/jordan



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