>On Jul 25, 2009, at 12:17 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote:
>
>>I've asked this question three times now, and everyone who thinks
>>morality matters, that there is something wrong with carrol, have refused
>>to answer me.
>>What improves politics? What advantage do you get?
>
>For me it's more a question of what you lose when you deny it. Every time
>you advocate something politically you are by definition saying it ought
>to be changed. Denying morality is essentially denying that there's any
>ought involved, which seems to me both bone-headed and needlessly
>arrogant. It essentially asserts that your morality is objectively true.
>Besides being wrong, it's a terrible way to persuade persuadable people to
>join your side.
>
>If your question is, "Can't we voice political demands perfectly well
>without using moral buzzwords?" I'd say of course. The question of the
>left's moral principles is mainly a matter of self-critique and debate
>when we're disputing over what those defining principles ought to be, both
>in a particular case and in general. Which is something we do on this
>list all the time, from its birth throes in the Kosovo war to the recent
>debate over Iran.
>
>Michael
yeah. i don't object to it so much. i mean, i understand all this at the philosophical level.
but i object more on the practical political level -- of what it turns movements in to when they are based on moralizing politics.
what i see is the degeneration of feminist politics into moralizing mandates about how the individual ought to live in order to be a right acting feminist. this happens in identity politics in general. you can see it in the Weather Underground as well, something I never got a chance to write about when I was reading that book on Weather.
Wendy Brown and Janet Halley have written entire books dedicated to criticizing the moralizing politics involved. Its pretty compelling stuff. Moreover, it speaks directly to the actual experience of political organizing: sitting in a room engaged in discussions about what is to be done, what's next on our plate, etc. etc. when the conversation devolves into moralizing politics it's all over but the crying.
shag