>On Sun, 21 Jun 2009, Chris Doss wrote:
>
>>
>>Isn't holocaust denial taught in Saudi schools, along with the Protocols?
>>Or is that just Debkaesque propaganda?
>
>Um, Saudi Arabia and Iran are different countries.
>
>Like I said, it was an empirical question. Do you have any empirical
>evidence you'd like to point us to? I'd be happy to look at it.
>
>Michael
lol
Doss's response is exactly the kind of crap that drives Iranians crazy. They are all one big glob of people so let's just compare Saudi Arabia to Iran. and if you want to know about the "sociology" of knowledge in Iran, it's rilly rilly helpful to look at educational instruction in Saudi Arabia. hurr hurr
I don't have the results of a survey, but I did read Azadeh Moevani's _Lipstick Jihad_ and _Honeymoon in Tehran_. Everything Dabashi said in Doug's interview is illustrated in these two books -- only Moevani would go further and point to the fact that disgust with Imadickinajar extends far beyond the upper middle class. (I suspect Moevani would object to Dabashi's claims about Mousavi. She hasn't struck me as a supporter of ex-clerics who once ordered the death of radicals -- e.g., she was quite outraged that Imadickinajar appointed someone who'd ordered the death of a friend's parents.)
Disgust with Imadickinajar was very obvious just after his election in 2005. Back then, there was a sense of the election being unfair, possibly rigged, since his election was so unexpected. In the first round, about 18% of the country voted for him. The clerics, hoping that Imadickinajar would appear like a bad cop to their stabilizing, balancing ways, backed Imadickinajar and mobilized Basiji to come out in force.
Imadickinajar was mocked endlessly early on for his poor grooming habits. He was compared to the monkey on a bag of Iranian Cheetohs. This changed soon, as people began praising him openly -- for reasons Moevani can't fathom but she tries to understand. What she learns is that people were putting their faith in his ability to transform the economy. Her father-in-law initially thought Imadickinjar was less than useless, but was persuaded by his intense interest in repairing the Iranian economy. Ordinary Iranians, of course, hoped Imadickinajar would mitigate stagflation.
But about 6 months into his disastrous policies, the tide started to shift again. Not only were his economic policies further eroding an already shaky economy, he was also imposing increasingly stringent restrictions on the daily lives of Iranians -- after several years of more lenient rule under Khatami.
People are embarrassed in general. The dread at Imadickinajar's behavior isn't confined to some special class of people. She tells the story of standing in a deli as state run t.v. praised Imadickinajar for his scolding letter to Bush. Everyone in the deli, from clerks to patrons shake their head in disgust. They are mortified by the behavior. It doesn't make sense to their idea of honor for one thing, but they also think he comes off as an amateur. A poll in the summer of 2001 revealed that 71% of Iranians wants to improve ties with the u.s. That support erorded with the Iraq war. Under Imadickinajar, it's right back up there at 71% again, at least back in 2007.
I'm sorry to have to relay this: but there is such a thing as satellite t.v (or there was until the state started knocking the satellite's down necessitating that people install very expensive mini statellites. This means that families like Moevani's can keep their satellite connection, but the apartment building's doorman and gardener cannot.
According to Moevani, Iranians from all walks of life want things to ease up between Iran and the rest of the world because they suffer from the sanctions. Every time Imadickinajar says something provocative, every time he threatens the u.s., etc. people are mortified -- because they realize that it'll be that much more difficult to repair relations with the west which is something, like it not, a lot of Iranians *support*.
The people who do not support reconciliation with the west are a small minority -- the core of Imadickinajar's 18% of supporters who are *fundamentalists* and approve of a theocracy. But those people are not indicative of what Iranians in general want: most tend to be secularists supporters of the separation of church and state. AS Dabashi says in the interview, they are sick to fucking death of having every aspect of their daily, mundane lives regulated by what clerics want: from whether their veil is too thin, to what color veils they can wear, to whether they can have mixed gender wedding receptions, to what they can eat or where they can eat or drink coffee.
Moevani, speaking of the more lenient years of early 2000s, said that we, with our western eyes think it's ridiculous that young women see resistance in the layers of lipstick they wear or throwing parties where couples slowdance or casual sex with many partners as some kind of victory. (which, btw, is *again* not confined to the well-to-do) but as Moevani says, it is the difference between suffocating and being able to take long, deep breaths.
She also noted that it took her a long time to shake her western liberal tendency to believe that she couldn't possibly have anything important or interesting to say because, being from a privileged class, her views were suspect. She spends a lot of time crisscrossing Iran to get a variety of opinion, ending up doing three times the work she'd normally have to do, just because she wants a way to offset what she thinks of as her bias. She's also pretty standoffish about religion, thinking that she has to be more understanding of the pious and their needs and desires, instead of imposing her secularism.
what she finally realizes is that Iranians are largely a secularist society. Most people, even the "uneducated" prefer secularist sep of religion and state. And what she finally realizes is that, while she is astounded by the hypocrisy of the mullahs, everyone about her laughs at her: they all already know the mullahs are greedy hypocrites who ask people do to one thing and then refuse to do the same. educated? uneducated? everyone knows this, it is only stupid westerners with their guilt for being western, who are shocked to learn that not only are the clerics hypocritical greedy bastards, but everyone in Iran is quite aware and have long ago made a distinction between the everyday practice of their spirituality and what the fucking clerics say.
of course, that's just one iranian journalist's view.