>
> On Jun 25, 2009, at 4:20 AM, Chris Doss wrote:
>
>> SOME (a few? half? most?) Iranians want a secular government. In
>> particular, those who write books in English. ;)
>
> Well we can't really know, can we? Especially since the gov won't
> allow anyone who doesn't pass the religious exams to run for office.
>
> Doug
I'm reminded of, what ISTR, is a point in anthropoligical linguistics. Where language customs in English as least are to use all (or some word like that) but everyone knows that no one really means all. I can't remember the details of the phenom, if someone can jog my memory that'd be arrrsum.
but more to the point, the conversation regarding what Iranians dream of was always shorthand for "what do the iranians protesting in the streets dream of." and I took your claims about those people in the street as "wanting to join the world" as a discussion about what they might mean by that. not iranians in general, but Iranians so motivated to get out in the street and inconvenience themselves.
well, i couldn't tell you because the conversations she has in these books, with the kind of people who are currently in the street, don't touch on the subject in the same direct way as her story about Mr.X and Mr. Sleepy too.
it seems to me an interesting indicator, when a government minder, employed by a repressive state ministry, actually cares about u.s. opinion, and desires the esteem of the u.s. and if he doesn't really, is more than willing to pretend he does.
It's not really a stretch to understand this. Reading both of Moaveni's books easily leads me to conclude that this is a view shared by many -- caring about American opinion -- and indeed the entire world's opinion -- as to the state of their democracy. The people in Moaveni's book position themselves as unique in the ME for just this reason, they see themselves as more capable than others of fostering democracy, etc.
And so I see no problem extending this idea to the protestors: I suspect many of them esteem u.s. opinion and want to be "join the world" as secularists -- and as I've repeatedly noted: the division here is among secularists as how to best do this: keep the theocracy and blend in democracy is one way, get rid of it all together another, and there are other positions in between.
I was thinking about something Eric said and I was reminded why I tend to see Moaveni as doing her best to paint a reasonable picture, there is this interview where she anticipates this conversation we are currently having:
"It was a great relief to give up that pretense and to honestly include all my own reactions and biases in a reported portrait of Iran. Take, for example, the story of young Iranian hedonism. I think no Iranian journalist can write that story without admitting what hopes and disappointments she brings to her perceptions." (interview with Azedeh Moaveni)
DossBomber's so worried that no one could possibly be as brilliant as he, it never occurs to him that such deep 140 character or less insights are likely to have crossed her dimbulb of a mind:.
-- not only is the water deep, and cold. the edges of the river are very craggy. *grin* --