>On Jun 26, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Michael Smith wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:09:44 -0700
>>Dennis Claxton <ddclaxton at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Here's another quaint idea. Try reading the report, all of it even.
>>
>>I did, actually. Found it quite unconvincing -- an exercise
>>in tendentious, parti-pris statistical thumbsucking.
>
>Could you, as they say in academia, unpack this? It looks like very
>standard electoral analysis, and quite convincing. Perhaps you could
>identify what's "tendentious" and thumb-sucky about it?
>
>Doug
I think, on this topic, Michael reveals his admiration for lawyerly argumentation. If you could imagine that space aliens landed in LA and killed Nicole Simpson, then there is doubt and you must acquit!
I miss Yoshie too. At least Yoshie didn't engage in such sleazy debate tactics. She made an actual argument to support her case, rather than using tactics common in a courtroom: "oh, look! shiny!" "belly dancing, reminds me of country line-dancing. [insert troll comment to get convo sidetracked]" and the handwave, "statistical thumbsucking", etc.
carrol said long ago that, when debating people who are largely on your side, it's a good idea to avoid logical fallacies because they are designed to defeat an opponent with whom you never intend to be in any type of collegial, common practice to achieve mutual goals.
i think, when people on this list exhibit, time and again, that all they can do is engage in these rhetorical tactics carrol's described (poisoning the wells, baiting, etc.), they show they have no interest in being on your side about anything, ever. they do not respect you and never will. their practice is destructive to solidarity.
carrol, for all his irritating ways, for all his little outbursts, for all his name-calling, hardly ever uses logical fallacies in an argument. he respects people -- and yes, even when he calls an idiot (like he once did me) -- and respects them enough to avoid unprincipled debate.
people who make a habit of it? why argue with people who are unprincipled with their supposed allies?
shag
-- http://cleandraws.com Wear Clean Draws