[lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats

[Miles Jackson]

Shane Mage wrote:
>
> On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:30 PM, ravi wrote:
>> ...I am saying that at the outset there are no things other than 
>> special conceptions of justice. You have your ideas of justice. 
>> Khamenei has his. Bush has his. So on. How do we develop some 
>> universal norms against which these can be evaluated?...
>
> This is so wrong.  There is a universal conception of justice, shared 
> by Ravi, Doug, Khamenei, Bush, and just about everyone else.  If Ravi 
> had profited at all from the former lives spent as an inhabitant of 
> Plato's beard he would be able to see that the wildly discrepant 
> verbal formulae each one uses to define the word "justice" mask an 
> underlying recognition of the same idea of justice.  And why would it 
> be so visible? Just think--suppose Ravi (or Doug or Khamenei or Bush 
> or Hitler) is standing on the street watching as a peaceful political 
> protest march is passing by.  Suddenly the cops, accompanied by thugs 
> from a paramilitary "militia," burst on the scene, beating and 
> arresting demonstrators.**  Ravi (or Doug or Khamenei or Bush or 
> Hitler) is beaten, arrested, tortured, convicted, and imprisoned for 
> terrorism.  Is there anyone who would doubt that each of these 
> gentlemen could with total precision claim to have been a victim of 
> *injustice*?  And could explain to the satisfaction of all
> why their treatment was unjust?  So, since injustice as such can be 
> only the privation of justice, the recognition and understanding of 
> injustice common to Ravi and Doug and Khamenei and Bush and Hitler and 
> everyone else indicates conclusively that all share a common--though 
> nonverbal--understanding and recognition of the idea of justice. 

Well, if the cops and militia are "protecting the public from a 
terrorist menace", then the harsh treatment is justifiable, given the 
serious threat to public security.  Shane's example above underestimates 
the ease and grace with which we justify social actions in the name of 
some Greater Good.  And moreover: that Greater Good is not some 
universal concept of justice; it's part of a locally created and 
perpetuated value system.  How one can look at the tremendous variety of 
norms and values across history and culture and only see one conception 
of justice baffles me.

Miles