[lbo-talk] Nature, Red, and tooth and claw

[ravi]

On May 8, 2009, at 4:41 PM, I wrote:
> On May 8, 2009, at 12:19 AM, Chris Doss wrote:
>>
>> "There is only nature" means nothing at all, unless you have  
>> previously defined what "nature" is. Shane is presumably using it  
>> to mean "matter" (whatever that is) or "things that aren't  
>> supernatural" (think, for a second, about what a meaningless  
>> concept that is. Presumably it means "things that are real" -- as  
>> opposed to gods and demons -- and so is totally empty. Nobody has  
>> anywhere deliberately set up a system consciously based on "things  
>> that aren't real").
>
> Look, lad, are you fucking with me here, because I don't mind taking  
> that bus to Connecticut! You seem to answer your own questions ("as  
> opposed to gods and demons") and then claim that there is no such  
> answer. Leave alone the robust (if paradoxical to some) history of  
> reificationism, physicalism, and then on to Quine "On what there  
> is"...
>
> Of course when people *cough*Plato*cough* set up systems based on  
> "things that aren't real" they sell them under a different name.
>
> The issue is not how Shane is using the term "nature", but how  
> scientists are using it. And if they are using it in a meaningless  
> way, I am guessing that makes Shane's point.
>

Here are Levitt and Gross defending their book, "Higher Superstitions"  
in the NYRB:


> Among the polemical lions of The New York Review, a few are by now  
> (if truth be known) quite gone in the teeth. Richard Lewontin is one  
> of the dentally challenged. Consider, for illustration, his obiter  
> dictum on Higher Superstition, and thereby on us, its authors [NYR,  
> October 22]. It and we are mocked as "naive" and "obtuse" for having  
> dared to suggest that natural science is concerned with, and  
> responsive to, the real world. (Advanced social thinkers,  
> presumably, know better.) "Naive" and "obtuse" are odd charges  
> coming from one who has for so long trodden the tortuous road of  
> orthodox Marxism.

And now, I am going to the beach. If you hadn't placed family over  
your comrades, you could have gone with me. And brought Ron Jeremy  
along for the clothing optional section. Pshaw!

	--ravi