[lbo-talk] Signs of the times

[wrobert at uci.edu]

> robert wood Wrote:
>
> "There is also the work by Ernst Bloch, who is pretty strongly
> anti-pauline, particularly his Atheism in Christianity (just reprinted
> by Verso) as well as his as of yet Untranslated work Thomas Muntzer as
> Theologian of the Revolution (part of Lukacs' History and Class
> Consciousness is in conversation with that volume)  My personal feeling
> is that the radical kernel of Christianity is to be found in its
> heretical trace, found in various sects, who are tied to a very small
> amount of famous names (Muntzer, Huss, Winstanley come to mind) but only
> very rarely enter into the official records (I have the same affection
> for Francis of Assisi as Hardt and Negri) "

I'm leaving my post up here and suggest that you go back to it.  You'll
notice that my references is to 'various sects' that is heretical
movements whose existence has only produced 'a very small amount of famous
names.' (Carlos Ginzberg deals with these movements in his historical
work, if one is interested)  In fact, my post makes exactly the opposite
point that you are arguing against.

                  robert wood
>
> The focus in this strand of the thread seems to be on the "radical
> kernel" of an ideology (here Christianity) in abhstraction from those
> who (more or less) are tied to it. Thus only major Christian thinkers
> are instanced, since only in them does the doctrine exist in this
> abstract form. This has its own interest, but ultimately it leads away
> from politics, because it necessarily ignores the split between abstract
> belief and concrete allegiances or pratices of bodies of people at
> particular times and places.
>
> _Any_ abstract set of beliefs can AND ARE QUITE REGULARLY 'stretched' to
> fit political or social activity which has q or may have quite
> different  sources than that belief. Quite a few Catholics support
> abortion is one obvious example.
>
> And political movements are always made up of amazing congeries of
> beliefs on the part both of the mass of activists and of the leaders. If
> and when a socialist revolution occurs, the overwhelming  majority of
> those who make that revolution will not be revolutionaries. And of those
> who are revolutionaries, a large number will not be socialists, and of
> those who are revolutionary socialists, quite a few  (both leaders and
> 'followers') will hold one or another version of one of the religions of
> the world.
>
> The history of ideas has a very limited relationship to political
> history, and the links it does have run from political beliefs and
> practices to abstract theology, philosophy, etc. Seldom, probably in
> fact never, does an abstract theology or philsophy itself lead directly
> to practice or the concreteideas of daily life.
>
> Theory really not only emerges from practice (and strives t o comprehend
> it) in the firt place, but the masses who adopt that theory adopt it in
> terms of their ownongoing practice, not by first accepting it, then
> adjusting practice to fit it.
>
> Carrol
>
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