[lbo-talk] Signs of the times

RicardoStarkey at aol.com RicardoStarkey at aol.com
Fri Sep 25 19:50:42 PDT 2009


In a message dated 9/25/2009 3:26:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, permaceaem at gmail.com writes:

"I now have no qualms against declaring you a person not to be believed. Based on what you've written above and in your last few posts. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder for mormonism. That is neither here nor there for me, since I really am a refuge from that religion.

However, I find that your criticisms of modern latter day saints lack merit and reek of something I'll call retributive anger. As evidence, I cite the above and your last couple of posts. You seem otherwise

willing to accept stories about fishes and bread, parting of seas, undersea excursions in the bellies of whales and more, because of the longevity of the tales. With no similar critical regard for their equally ridiculous nature.

In an earlier email, you said that all mormons "truly deserve all of the mockery they get." Well, perhaps unlike you, I really was raised up in a mormon household. But unlike you, I would not want you or others anywhere else heaping mockery on my immediate relatives. I'd hope for a more reasoned and time-based approach in the more difficult of those cases. I know I've tried and what I have to say gets discounted, but someone not related could be more successful if their method did not frontally involve mockery.

So for that, I pronounce you a transparent fraud and liar. Which variant of "God" do you worship, that you'd wish hate and discontent on your immediate family? Or are you just a psychopath, that you'd wish hate and discontent instead of compassionate education on anyone?"

Wow, there's so much weird shit here that I had to copy the whole thing. I don't know where to start.

I'm a (philosophical) materialist, and therefore an atheist, so I claim that no supernatural belief system is a truthful interpretation of reality. So all religions are nonsensical and at variance with basic scientific facts. I have disdain for them all, and I condescend to their believers, if the people in question had a chance at a decent education. It is true, though, that I have a chip on my shoulder regarding Mormonism, because that is the specific religion that oppressed me, mostly by wasting my time and boring me to death, but really, I could go on and on. I just can't work up the hate for other religions the way I can for Mormonism, because they never affected my life personally. I think Islam is pretty nasty in its misogyny, but Muslims never harmed my wife, so I don't get worked up about it.

You say I seem willing to accept the tales of other religions, but am extra-skeptical about those of Mormonism. You are incorrect. I accept no stories that rely on the supernatural. I just think that the stuff in the _Book of Mormon_ is more ridiculous because it is presented as history, with corresponding dates. And let me remind you that Mormons consider the Bible to be the word of god, "as far as it's translated correctly," or some such shit, so the myths of the Mormons include the myths of the Bible.

You also say that you wouldn't want anyone mocking your immediate relatives. Well, I regret to say that I am no longer close with any relatives, so I guess I wouldn't care much what was said about them, but I would hope that a critic would try to keep the criticism focused on their unreasonable beliefs, and not on them personally. And in case you think that I believe that mocking religious people will make them see the light, you are mistaken.

I think that in the huge majority of cases, there is no cure for supernatural beliefs, and the best tactic is to give believers a wide berth. The only hope is a good education for the young, which of course they deserve.

"I pronounce you a transparent fraud and liar." Seriously? Man. that's rich. Why would I bother? Who would have an animus against the Mormon church other than someone who had been subjected to their bullshit for years? Someone who had been visited one too many times by missionaries? I still remember, shortly after turning 16, girding my loins before going into my interview with the bishop, where he was going to determine whether I was pure enough to be ordained an Aaronic priest. I had absolutely no desire to be so ordained, but I knew the shit would hit the fan if I failed the interview. I knew I would have to lie through my teeth in order to give the "right' answers, and of course I was acquainted with the myth that those Melchizedeks in authority had some magical way of knowing whether their interviewees were lying. So I prepared myself to pretend that I was a true believer in the LDS church, even though I seriously doubted the existence of god, and fully intended to use the first available opportunity to fornicate.

I'm not a psychopath, but I don't care much about whether people like me. Does that make me a sociopath? And I don't wish anything on my family, other than that they keep their distance.

Just to be perfectly clear, I worship nothing at all -- neither gods, nor nature nor people I admire, like Marx and Darwin.



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