>On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, shag carpet bomb wrote:
>
>>at least as articulated on this list, I always thought that's what Doug
>>was saying. You already had an organized movement - 90s is a good example
>>here, too. Already in place, it 'benefited' from the disappointment. The
>>movement was made up of people who didn't buy into the Democrats' claims
>>- its core was made up of them. People who had bought into dem's claims
>>were then attracted to that movement as an outlet to express their
>>disappointment and frustration with the Dems.
>
>That seems fair enough. I guess I wondered too far from my original
>point, which is that comparing the disappointment of Kennedy/Johnson with
>Clinton and Obama misses something crucial: the Dems under Kennedy/Johnson
>passed major transformative progressive legislation. Clinton and so far
>Obama didn't. And yet the former is associated with by far the huger movement.
>
>One could just as well say success led to disillusionment as that failure
>led to it.
>
>Michael
well, to be really simplistic: the N=2. The common denominator for both? Disappointment. I'd say same with the disappointment that funneled people into the Civil Rights movement as well. There may have been successes under FDR, but the reality of Jim Crow, in spite of those successes, was what spurred people into an already existing social movement -- something Robin D.G. Kelley writes about in Race Rebels which I'd mentioned I was reading awhile back. I'm pretty sure someone could look at radicalization around the Progressive movement and its attendant disappointments/successes.
As for Clinton's administration, I think the "success" there was simply that he got elected at all. People counted that as a huge success at the time, and I can remember this whole slew of policy wonks certain that they'd staff think tanks and, as a consequence, change the world. ha ha ha.
Currently finished up Bright-sided. Finally got in from the library after placing it on hold when it first came out. Will write more about it later. The central "cause" of the happy happy joy joy gospel in the u.s. isn't really some culturally always existing tendency in the u.s., but the combination of protestant theology and business culture. The central chapter is on the use of motivational speakers and themes in the business world. more later. busy day.
shag