[lbo-talk] Darwinian evolution only part of story?

Joseph Catron jncatron at gmail.com
Sat Jan 30 08:40:18 PST 2010


Friend, I think the root of our disagreement is that you confuse the scientific community with a rational machine, in which valid theories immediately take hold, and the rest of us do not. (As Dawkins observed when he hit on the idea of the meme in 1976, it, and any marketplace of ideas, works more like an ecosystem.) Of course Goldenfield and Woese's ideas are not completely innovative as of January 2010; when has anyone claimed they were? But they are catching on, which is an exciting process to observe in and of itself.

To those claiming these ideas are hackneyed, trite, and mundane: What do you bet that I can't walk into a local high school, or even college, pick up an introductory biology textbook, and find a straight Darwinian-Mendelian synthesis? I know it still holds exclusive sway in the popular literature on evolutionary biology.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 7:26 AM, <maximumep at gmail.com> wrote:


> Chuck Grimes wrote:
> Woese is an interesting guy. So to answer Carrol's question, what's the big
> deal? I think the big deal is this, ``the ancestor cannot have been a
> particular organism, a single organismal lineage. It was communal, a
> loosely
> knit, diverse conglomeration of primitive cells that evolved as a unit,''
>
> The question isn't whether Woese is an "interesting guy", or whether he and
> his colleagues do interesting work, but whether the original article
> posted
> at the beginning of this thread is anything more than hot air or hype --
> which it clearly is -- and that could have been predicted even before
> reading the New Scientist article by simply reading both the subject line
> and the original passage quoted from Buchanan's NS article (as Carrol seems
> to have done).
>
> Carrol's problem with this whole subject line/thread is worth repeating:
> "What bothered me was the subject line. It announces a banality as though
> it
> were brand new, and thereby even cheapens the excitement of the actual
> discoveries."
>
> The research paper by Vetsigian et al.(2006) that the New Scientist article
> is actually describing is certainly a very interesting paper -- and a
> relatively accessible paper that can be read here on the PNAS site without
> a
> subscription:
> http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10696.full
> Clearly no one has a problem with this research being described as
> interesting, exciting or important -- just with how it's being represented,
> by both the NS article's author and its enthusiastic supporters on this
> list, as though it were some sort of paradigmatic challenge to Darwinism...
> which is simply nonsense! And that also goes for the claims being made on
> this list about horizontal gene transfer being some sort of recent and big
> challenge to darwinism. This stuff is decades old and HGT's possible roles
> in evolution has been discussed and investigated for almost as long.
>
> The author of this New Scientist article is either incompetent or lazy...
> and, I would guess, a bit of a snake-oil salesman.
>
> -mep
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>

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