On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:16 AM, <lbo-talk-request at lbo-talk.org> wrote:
> Send lbo-talk mailing list submissions to
> lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> lbo-talk-request at lbo-talk.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> lbo-talk-owner at lbo-talk.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of lbo-talk digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: the new official IDF line (Doug Henwood)
> 2. Re: the new official IDF line (Michael Smith)
> 3. Re: the new official IDF line (Joseph Catron)
> 4. Re: the new official IDF line (Carrol Cox)
> 5. Corrie v Turkish Ships (Peter Ward)
> 6. A global overview of Gaza flotilla protests? (Joseph Catron)
> 7. Re: A global overview of Gaza flotilla protests? (Chuck Grimes)
> 8. Re: Corrie v Turkish Ships (123hop at comcast.net)
> 9. George Galloway announces concrete plans for next convoys
> (Joseph Catron)
> 10. RT: US secretly paid media to spin news against Cuban Five
> (Joseph Catron)
> 11. Re: Corrie v Turkish Ships (JC Helary)
> 12. Obama sends special forces to 75 countries, leaving Bush in
> the dust (Doug Henwood)
> 13. Re: Corrie v Turkish Ships (martin)
> 14. Re: Corrie v Turkish Ships (Bhaskar Sunkara)
> 15. Re: Corrie v Turkish Ships (Michael Smith)
> 16. USS Liberty (Chuck Grimes)
> 17. Re: USS Liberty (Andy)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:45:32 -0400
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] the new official IDF line
>
> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:32 PM, W. Kiernan wrote:
>
>> Current events plus arrogance/strength might lead you to predict different behavior in the near future than the same current events plus desperation/weakness. So if I wanted to guess what Israel's government is going to do next, their motivation _would_ be important.
>
> In his interview with Russia Today, Norman said that Israel has probably gone from acting like a lunatic state to being a lunatic state.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 13:35:56 -0400
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] the new official IDF line
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:45:32 -0400
> Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote:
>
>> In his interview with Russia Today, Norman said that Israel has
>> probably gone from acting like a lunatic state to being a lunatic
>> state.
>
> If we accept this way of describing the situation -- and I'm not saying
> it's wrong -- then Israel has been a lunatic state for a long time:
> ever since it developed "regional superpower" ambitions, and that may
> well have been a long time ago. It may well have been ab ovo, in fact.
> Lunacy may be a deformation professionnelle of Zionism.
>
> It's always fun to try looking at it from the enemy's point of
> view. What could Israel have done different? They couldn't possibly
> have let the flotilla through. That would entail an implicit admission
> that they don't control everything in their self-appointed sphere
> of influence.
>
> Could they have come up with a kinder, gentler way of stopping
> the flotilla? No doubt. But wouldn't that entail an admission
> too -- namely that the people on the flotilla were entitled
> to some degree of respect, that they were something other
> than vile terrorists and anti-Semites, that Israel might have
> enemies -- and the flotilla folk certainly were enemies, Yahweh
> bless 'em -- who are *human beings* with reasonable motives?
>
> I'm seeing a lot of parallels these days between Israel and the
> New York City police department.
>
> --
>
> Michael Smith
> mjs at smithbowen.net
> http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org
> http://fakesprogress.blogspot.com
>
> "Everyone has his favorite passage from the
> Theodosian Code." -- M I Finley
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 15:41:41 -0400
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] the new official IDF line
> Ironically, at today's Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions march, I was
> reminded that we should all be boycotting Motorola (and telling them about
> it):
>
> http://palsolidarity.org/2009/03/5703
> http://www.hanguponmotorola.org
>
> But this report eases my guilt that I, too, am "equipped with a Motorola
> communication device." (I bought the damn thing before this campaign
> started.)
>
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Eric Beck <ersatzdog at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Every word is
>> hilarious: mercenaries, well-trained, without IDs, metal bars, etc.,
>> and the best one, "Motorola communication device." Really, if
>> someone's carrying a "Motorola communication device," for
>> self-protection you've got shoot them in the face at least four times.
>>
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 15:55:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] the new official IDF line
> Michael's point is probably valid. But there _have_ been cases of states
> deliberately appearing lunatic: Nixon wanted the SU to think the U.S.
> might be lunatic: it made the nuclear threat more realistic.
>
> And there are some lines from Macbeth relevant to this -- about having
> already waded so deep in blood!
>
> I misplaced the pamphlet long ago, but it contained a long list of
> various 'respectable' Zionists declaring that the massacre of the
> inhabitants of a village (name forgottedn) in 1947 had been absolutely
> essential to the establishment of Israel, for otherwise an inadequatre
> number of Palestinians would have fled, thus throwing dobut on the
> "country with out inhabitants" that was part of Zionist propaganda.
>
> Carrol
>
> Michael Smith wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:45:32 -0400
>> Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In his interview with Russia Today, Norman said that Israel has
>> > probably gone from acting like a lunatic state to being a lunatic
>> > state.
>>
>> If we accept this way of describing the situation -- and I'm not saying
>> it's wrong -- then Israel has been a lunatic state for a long time:
>> ever since it developed "regional superpower" ambitions, and that may
>> well have been a long time ago. It may well have been ab ovo, in fact.
>> Lunacy may be a deformation professionnelle of Zionism.
>>
>> It's always fun to try looking at it from the enemy's point of
>> view. What could Israel have done different? They couldn't possibly
>> have let the flotilla through. That would entail an implicit admission
>> that they don't control everything in their self-appointed sphere
>> of influence.
>>
>> Could they have come up with a kinder, gentler way of stopping
>> the flotilla? No doubt. But wouldn't that entail an admission
>> too -- namely that the people on the flotilla were entitled
>> to some degree of respect, that they were something other
>> than vile terrorists and anti-Semites, that Israel might have
>> enemies -- and the flotilla folk certainly were enemies, Yahweh
>> bless 'em -- who are *human beings* with reasonable motives?
>>
>> I'm seeing a lot of parallels these days between Israel and the
>> New York City police department.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Smith
>> mjs at smithbowen.net
>> http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org
>> http://fakesprogress.blogspot.com
>>
>> "Everyone has his favorite passage from the
>> Theodosian Code." -- M I Finley
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Peter Ward <nevadabob at hotmail.co.uk>
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 22:13:23 +0100
> Subject: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
>
> The Corrie seems to have gotten off comparatively lightly. Quoting Chanel 4 News (UK): "But the Rachel Corrie was stopped without incident or bloodshed and the nineteen people on board are now in custody pending their deportation." The boarding was nonviolent and those on board are set to be quickly deported from Israel (the Turkish crews, presumably, will be held indefinitely as "terrorist" suspects). One might claim this is do to the decision of the crew to surrender without struggle. However, I suspect it's because the Corrie crew have Ireland backing her. Israel may be a lunatic state, but not one so crazy as to know which countries' opinions matter and which don't.
>
> Peter Ward
> pontificatingwithoutalicense.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/
> Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 17:49:42 -0400
> Subject: [lbo-talk] A global overview of Gaza flotilla protests?
> I am preparing a package of reading material on the recent massacre and
> global reactions for a prisoner with a particular background and interest in
> the Palestinian struggle. One gaping hole: I have not found an article
> reporting, in broad strokes, the protests of recent days. Surely someone has
> written such a thing; can anyone point me towards it?
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Chuck Grimes" <c123grimes at att.net>
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>, "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition" <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 15:57:55 -0700
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] A global overview of Gaza flotilla protests?
> I can't offer any help on the main request but Glenn Greenwald has an essay
> up on Salon that has many useful links:
>
> http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html
>
> Among several other things, one of the links mentions six people missing, who
> probably among the dead, which explains the difference between 16 first reported
> kill, and now ten or nine.
>
> The Free Gaza people need to assemble their passenger manifests, and find out who has reported back home, who is missing, and who are still being held.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: 123hop at comcast.net
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:01:26 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
> Why does Ireland matter?
>
> Joanna
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Ward" <nevadabob at hotmail.co.uk>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Sent: Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:13:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
>
>
> The Corrie seems to have gotten off comparatively lightly. Quoting Chanel 4 News (UK): "But the Rachel Corrie was stopped without incident or bloodshed and the nineteen people on board are now in custody pending their deportation." The boarding was nonviolent and those on board are set to be quickly deported from Israel (the Turkish crews, presumably, will be held indefinitely as "terrorist" suspects). One might claim this is do to the decision of the crew to surrender without struggle. However, I suspect it's because the Corrie crew have Ireland backing her. Israel may be a lunatic state, but not one so crazy as to know which countries' opinions matter and which don't.
>
> Peter Ward
> pontificatingwithoutalicense.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/
> Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 19:39:49 -0400
> Subject: [lbo-talk] George Galloway announces concrete plans for next convoys
> His speech at today's London rally:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-orgcWTpwJM
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 20:45:37 -0400
> Subject: [lbo-talk] RT: US secretly paid media to spin news against Cuban Five
> "Five Cuban men convicted on charges of espionage over ten years ago and put
> in prison may have been the victims of a smear campaign by the US
> government."
>
> http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-06-03/us-secret-media-cuba.html
>
> Of course I'm not shocked that such a thing could happen. What surprises me
> is that it apparently didn't take more than a FOIA request to uncover it.
> Kudos to the National Committee to Free the Cuban Five for doing the legwork
> on this one, but it's enough to make me wonder what consistent, disciplined
> investigation of the government - the kind of thing journalists would do, in
> my fantasy land - might uncover.
>
> Here's more media coverage, such as it is:
>
> http://www.freethefive.org/legalFront/FOIA/PressConferencePress60210.htm
>
> And here's the Committee's full dossier:
>
> http://www.freethefive.org
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: JC Helary <brandelune at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 10:08:35 +0900
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
>
> On 6 juin 10, at 08:01, 123hop at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Why does Ireland matter?
>
> Because of the Irish minority in the US ?
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com>
> To: lbo-talk <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 21:11:43 -0400
> Subject: [lbo-talk] Obama sends special forces to 75 countries, leaving Bush in the dust
> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7144445.ece>
>
> Obama secretly deploys US special forces to 75 countries across world
> Tim Reid and Michael Evans, Washington
>
> President Obama has secretly sanctioned a huge increase in the number of US special forces carrying out search-and-destroy missions against al-Qaeda around the world, with American troops now operating in 75 countries.
> The dramatic expansion in the use of special forces, which in their global span go far beyond the covert missions authorised by George W. Bush, reflects how aggressively the President is pursuing al-Qaeda behind his public rhetoric of global engagement and diplomacy.
>
> When Mr Obama took office US special forces were operating in fewer than 60 countries. In the past 18 months he has ordered a big expansion in Yemen and the Horn of Africa — known areas of strong al-Qaeda activity — and elsewhere in the Middle East, central Asia and Africa.
>
> According to The Washington Post, Mr Obama has also approved pre-emptive special forces strikes to disrupt terror plots, and has given the units powers and authority that was not granted by Mr Bush when he occupied the White House...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: martin <mschiller at pobox.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 18:20:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
>
> On Jun 5, 2010, at 4:01 PM, 123hop at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Why does Ireland matter?
>>
>
> British empire grandfather clause?
>
> martin
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bhaskar Sunkara <bhaskar.sunkara at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:09:19 -0400
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
> "One might claim this is do to the decision of the crew to surrender
> without struggle."
>
> This... and it happened after Monday's massacre. And I have no idea
> where you're going with your other point. Appeasing the Turks has
> always been of vital importance for the Israelis.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:10:21 -0400
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Corrie v Turkish Ships
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:01:26 +0000 (UTC)
> 123hop at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Why does Ireland matter?
>
> Officially certified white people?
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Smith
> mjs at smithbowen.net
> http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org
> http://fakesprogress.blogspot.com
>
> "Everyone has his favorite passage from the
> Theodosian Code." -- M I Finley
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Chuck Grimes" <c123grimes at att.net>
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 20:28:05 -0700
> Subject: [lbo-talk] USS Liberty
>
> I went looking for information on the USS Liberty. One of the Americans on the Mavi Marmara was from the USS Liberty. I'd never heard of this business going back to the 1967 Egypt v. Israel war. After I went through some of the material, I realized I did remmeber this incident, very, very dimly. The Israelis attacked a US Navy intelligence ship and said the attack was a case of mistaken identity. Here is an essay on the incident:
>
> http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair1126.html
>
> Here is a link to long video of documentary of attack:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7384200507117357203#
>
> One of the interviewed said that it turned out to be a test. If Israel could attack a US Navy vessel without protest or reaction from the US, then Israel could do anything without worrying about reprisal. Another interviewer said, the Israelis didn't want the US to have information on what was going on in the Sinai and Gaza. He said the Israelis were shooting their Egyptian and Palestinian prisoners. Chomski's theory was the attack was motivated by concern the US might detect the plan to take the Golan. Here's a wiki:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#Ongoing_controversy_and_unresolved_questions
>
> The USS Liberty is an interesting event to think about. It involves the US and Israel in war crimes, cover-ups, intelligence, and high drama with the Russians. The Russians were supporting Egypt and Syria. The US and UK were supporting Israel, although in theory the Israelis were on their own.
>
> The other interesting feature is the controversy over why hit a US ship is still running on with no answer, just more obfuscation and disbutes. So a perfect fog descends.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andy <andy274 at gmail.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 08:16:47 -0400
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] USS Liberty
> On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Chuck Grimes <c123grimes at att.net> wrote:
>
>> The USS Liberty is an interesting event to think about. It involves the US
>> and Israel in war crimes, cover-ups, intelligence, and high drama with the
>> Russians. The Russians were supporting Egypt and Syria. The US and UK were
>> supporting Israel, although in theory the Israelis were on their own.
>
> This is getting more tangential, but the Stark incident has some
> interesting parallels:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_%28FFG-31%29#Missile_attack
>
>
>
> --
> Andy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lbo-talk mailing list
> lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
-- Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern